401 bearing issues

301, 401, plinths and assorted idler stuff
adrian
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#1 401 bearing issues

Post by adrian »

Hello all
I have been servicing my 401 and have a few queries:
1. what oil to use for the spindle lubricant. I have a Martin Bastin thrust pad at the base of the spindle
2, when I replace the heavy platter the spindle does not initially go down to the bottom of the housing. I searched for answers on the web and when I returned to the 401 the platter was in the correct lower position. Might this just be a question of air slowly escaping the bearing housing and the pressure releasing under the weight of the platter? Is it advisable NOT to force the spindle down more quickly?
3. Despite the platter falling into position, there is an intermittent scraping sound when it rotates. It must be sitting fractionally lower. One possible explanation is that 1 of the 3 screws holding the spindle housing in place does not tighten and so the spindle may not be rock solid as befgore. Would I need to go underneath to hold the lock washer and nut in place (somehow!) while I tighten the screw?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions
Best wishes
Adrian
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IslandPink
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#2 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by IslandPink »

I pinged a friend of mine who used to service these, he might offer some advice tomorrow, he said.
"Once you find out ... the Circumstances ; then you can go out"
adrian
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#3 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by adrian »

Hi Island Pink
thanks very much for that. In fact, further digging found some old threads on the oil to use, so I will re-read those. In the meantime it seems pretty well lubricated for now. On the other issues I re-installed the bearing housing nice and tight, by going at it from above and below, and the scraping has gone. It must be running flatter.
I am about to fettle my Grace arm with NOS Grace HS-5 headshell and Denon 103 cartridge (which I got from Gerry, who many of you will now, yesterday).
Bit of a false alarm all in all, but I would be keen to hear your friend's opinion nevertheless, especially on a tried and trusted brand of oil
All the best
Adrian
simon
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#4 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by simon »

Mmmm, it's a very long time since I lubed my 401 bearing so I'd be interested too. IIRC I used Hot Wax, an angling product used for reels recommended by Will.
Daniel Quinn
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#5 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by Daniel Quinn »

I use motor oil. If it's good enough for 50k of mechanical engine parts it's good enough for a bearing
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pre65
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#6 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by pre65 »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:08 pm I use motor oil. If it's good enough for 50k of mechanical engine parts it's good enough for a bearing
Not necessarily. :wink:
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Morgan Jones
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#7 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by Morgan Jones »

Martin recommends slideway oil for his bearings (stuff intended for lathes and mills). Unfortunately, it's sold in 5l cans. But I imagine he gets many requests for oil and can sell you some in a more sensible quantity.
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#8 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by Max N »

Lubricating oils are designed to work over a certain temperature range, depending on the application.
So with motor oil I would be worried that the viscosity might be too high at room temp.
Slideway oil and fishing reel oil do sound like better candidates
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pre65
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#9 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by pre65 »

When I was a youngster, the go to oil for most things was 3 in 1 or Singer sewing machine oil.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

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Daniel Quinn
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#10 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by Daniel Quinn »

Max , you worry about motor oil viscosity and I'll worry about my gait 🤣
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rowuk
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#11 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by rowuk »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:20 am Max , you worry about motor oil viscosity and I'll worry about my gait 🤣
Is your gait temperature dependent too?

50 years ago I experimented and ended up using military grade silicone grease. The test was to spin the platter by hand and see how long it rotated (not very scientific - I know). The grease spun minutes longer than anything else that I tried. The best part is that even today, the bearing works flawlessly. I may still have the tube of grease somewhere. I will look and see if I can find any details
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Nick
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#12 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by Nick »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:20 am Max , you worry about motor oil viscosity and I'll worry about my gait 🤣
Seems fine. Max can post to a thread about oil (like this one), and you can post to one about your gait (not this one).
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#13 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by Daniel Quinn »

I think you both miss the point.

It will take of lot of convincing that differing lubricants used in bearings are audible or in any way offer an advantage .
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Nick
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#14 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by Nick »

Not sure why it would require convincing or not, try it and if it makes a difference to you then it does, if it doesn't it doesn't. No one has died in any part of it. But its not a matter of convincing that viscosity is a real thing as is the other aspects of oil behavior and bearing friction.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
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Nick
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#15 Re: 401 bearing issues

Post by Nick »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:06 am I think you both miss the point.

It will take of lot of convincing that differing lubricants used in bearings are audible or in any way offer an advantage .
If that was your point, why didn't you just post that instead of something far more vague and passive aggressive?
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
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