Vinyl playback and synergy...

Love it or hate it, it just won't stop
JohnG
Old Hand
Posts: 417
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:59 am

#16 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by JohnG »

I have a owned a Batch of Cork Pads approx 40x40x5mm for a very long time.
These are ideal for my purposes, and have found permanent use.
They are used as footers for Casing Feet and as footers for used Dedicated Footers.
They are also used as the support pads under other Shelves on the Rack Set Up.
User avatar
Greg
Social outcast
Posts: 3029
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:14 am
Location: Bristol, UK

#17 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by Greg »

vinylnvalves wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:47 pm I found after a few false starts with tables under my turntables that a wall mount works best for me, especially with the suspensionless hyperspace.
What are the actual Hyperspace feet made of? Are they hard or soft?

Thinking about my own new TT wall shelf support I need to organise, so trying to expand my knowledge.
vinylnvalves
Old Hand
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:08 pm

#18 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by vinylnvalves »

The Hyperspace feet are a hard rubber ( shore hardness ~90) seem to be ageneric dome pad, as used on furniture to stop marking, NA may tell you different.

As I said I had a bracket made up - as I wanted a shelf underneath for the preamp DSP, but more importantly bigger than your typical target wall shelf, as the turntable has a big foot print, especially with a longer arm. Used someone online in Devon, made to my spec and powder coated it was under £100 from what I remember However as fabricated without fixturing it wasn’t as square as a mass produced one. The adjustable spikes took out the few mm of twist easily.
JamesD
Old Hand
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

#19 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by JamesD »

Sorry to be quiet for a bit - I had my second COVID jab and went to sleep for a week and then no energy for another week... Feeling better the last couple of days - thank goodness...

So synergy... I now understand Ants love for the Audio Technica MM cartridges... after finding them second place to the Ortofon MMs - I now have a DD deck where the ATs are markedly better than the Ortofons and are in some ways better than the Ortofon in the Kenwood & AIWA decks - The AT in the JVC QL-A7 is wonderful with more texture and timbre than the Ortofon and an equal sense of performance - it has a less weight than the Ortofon in the Kenwood & AIWA - a little less sense of rightness when playing classical pieces but more texture and air when playing folk, blues and rock - I think this matches Ants description of the AT and I fully agree with him with the AT on the JVC deck...

Now I need to complete my MC head amp to get them back into the equation as my SUT is definitely limiting their performance...

The deck support is so important too and I am very lucky to have found a good way to mount my decks - in the past I have used floor mounts and wall mounts and various combinations of slate/plywood/mdf/oak/beech & pine in various laminated forms with cork/rubber and sorbothane layers and spikes/spheres/blocks/boxes/cylinders/pyramids for supports and some have worked and some haven't and I have no rules to determine which to use in different circumstances and which to not... trial and error to discover the synergistic result seems to be the only method... I have determined that what the belt driven suspended sub-chassis deck requires is not the same as the direct drive solid plinth requires...

I need to try the Ariston next but that will take a while...
Ant
Needs to get out more
Posts: 1967
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:45 pm
Location: Yorkshire

#20 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by Ant »

I have one of nicks ha1 head amps here which i borrowed off him, im running an at33sa into it at the moment.
Ive had lots of different suts, llundahls, sowters, some cinemags and some oep ones, ortofon t5s an audio technica one with flying leads on it and some ortofon ones that went with the sl15 i had that were crap. some sets were pretty expensive. The llundahls were alot of money...None of them were as good for me personally as this particular ss head amp.
I have a broken lentek head amp somewhere, that was alright too before it packed up.
Personally i prefer ss head amps to suts, i havent heard the really expensive ones like the s&b ones though. They may be better, but i find the frequency extremes are not affected by the ss head amp but have been with the suts ive had
Also starring Rex Hamilton as Abraham Lincoln

www.bte-designs.weebly.com
User avatar
IslandPink
Loony Bin!
Posts: 9282
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 7:01 pm
Location: Denbigh, N.Wales

#21 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by IslandPink »

JamesD wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 8:09 pm Sorry to be quiet for a bit - I had my second COVID jab and went to sleep for a week and then no energy for another week... Feeling better the last couple of days - thank goodness...
Glad you're back in business, sounds grim, James.
I'm off for my second jab on Thurs pm, wish me luck !
"Peridots and periwinkle, blue medallions Gilded galleons spilled across the ocean floor" ( Mitchell )
JamesD
Old Hand
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

#22 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by JamesD »

Good luck with the jab Mark!!!

It wasn't much fun but at least I didn't feel ill just exhausted... and miles better than getting COVID!

Got some design work completed for the mc head amp so its now ready to build rather than just a circuit simulation... might get it done in a week or so...
JamesD
Old Hand
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

#23 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by JamesD »

I have had a play with the Optonica (Sharp) RP-7100 deck and it is better with the Ortofon M20E Super cartridge than the Audio Technica AT450E by about the same amount as the Kenwood is. It sounds like an 90% version of the Kenwood deck - mainly due to the arm being limited in quality. Its a strange deck in that it has a track detection system built in using a second arm in parallel to the main arm carrying an optical scanning system to detect track boundaries... it works well but the main arm is compromised as a result so a nice deck and smart looking but ultimately a not up to the others for sound quality. I'll upload some pictures in a day or two...

More interesting is the JVC and it liking the AT450E cartridge. I really like the sound of this combination and it compares well to the Kenwood or AIWA with the Ortofon M20E Super - ahlittle behind in my judgement but very close and I can hear different things with each deck... so how does this relate to synergy?

With the Ortofon cartridge on the JVC deck the arm sounds a little overpowered as if the cartridge is feeding too much power into the arm - I've had this with the Denon 103 so I am familiar with how it sounds and I have found that adding mass directly to the headshell helps control the cartridge. Adding a 20p piece via bluetack to the JVC arm/headshell did help here but not enough to equal the sound quality of the AT450E on the JVC arm/headshell.

Its interesting that when playing the same record the AT has more output than the Ortofon and given that they are playing the same record i.e. the same energy is being supplied to into the cartridge it appears that the AT coverts more of that energy into signal than the Ortofon - what does the Ortofon do with this excess energy? Feed it into the arm - exciting the arm/headshell and counterweight resonances... is this the source of the difference in sound quality between the decks that I am experiencing? We know that the cartridge/headshell/arm + bearings/ counterweight/arm mounting to chassis/ chassis to turntable bearing/ turntable motor to platter/platter to turntable bearing/ platter to record and record to cartridge loop is critical to the way record playing takes place and that how energy paths and resonances occur in this system determines how a system sounds so it makes sense that the energy a cartridge converts/controls and transmits into the arm affects its sound quality...

Thats my story today... OK I'm ignoring the different energy paths both to and from the energy sink for the system that the turntable mounting supports as thats also part of the sound quality equation so more to come...
JamesD
Old Hand
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

#24 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by JamesD »

I promised some pictures...

Here is the Optonica (Sharp)
Optonica RP7100-3.png
Optonica RP7100-3.png (132.08 KiB) Viewed 2585 times
Optonica RP7100-2.png
Optonica RP7100-2.png (154.68 KiB) Viewed 2585 times
Optonica RP7100.png
Optonica RP7100.png (210.73 KiB) Viewed 2585 times
One interesting observation about this deck is that the surface noise is more noticeable with this deck than any of the others and that is consistent with it being a lessor performer than the others...
Last edited by JamesD on Fri May 28, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JamesD
Old Hand
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

#25 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by JamesD »

And here is the JVC
JVC QL-A7-2.png
JVC QL-A7-2.png (190.13 KiB) Viewed 2585 times
JVC QL-A7.png
JVC QL-A7.png (181.77 KiB) Viewed 2585 times
and close up of the AT cartridge
AT450E.png
AT450E.png (85.84 KiB) Viewed 2585 times
User avatar
IslandPink
Loony Bin!
Posts: 9282
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 7:01 pm
Location: Denbigh, N.Wales

#26 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by IslandPink »

That's a fine piece of work !
I saw this one the other day - not sure if it's a bargain (project) for someone ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234003863583 ... Sw075gmYdN
"Peridots and periwinkle, blue medallions Gilded galleons spilled across the ocean floor" ( Mitchell )
JamesD
Old Hand
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

#27 Re: Vinyl playback and synergy...

Post by JamesD »

DP-1000 is a nice DD motor unit but this looks like the right/top price to me as its a 110V unit and no arm.... having said that, serious vintage DD turntable prices are going up worldwide...

But its up against things like the JVC QL-A7 which has a decent arm is 240V and is semi-auto for £450.00 to £500.00.

The Denon DP-1000 motor unit is roughly equivalent to the JVC TT-71 motor unit that the QL-A7 uses so they are comparable
Post Reply