Zero emission road vehicles.

[pre65]

I would put my own money on the fact that a F1 engine is not at its most economical at 55mph, or 70mph, or anything like that.

I thought we were talking about cars on the public highway ?

[Nick]

I would put my own money on the fact that a F1 engine is not at its most economical at 55mph, or 70mph, or anything like that.

I thought we were talking about cars on the public highway ?

We were, but I suggested it was a design choice. I used that as an example of a different set of choices. If the design choice is such that the peaks sit a 20mph, 30mph, 55mph and so on, then it may of may not be the case that 30mph is more efficient that 20mph. I said it probably depends, you were the one making the assertion with what doesn't seem like any evidence.

[IslandPink]

What does the panel think about having to drive at 10mph - which I did for half a mile on Tuesday morning, on my way to arriving late for work ?

[andrew Ivimey]

Isn't 10mph approx what driving in Central London is like?

It ain't natural. Someone with a red flag should walk in front.

[pre65]

What does the panel think about having to drive at 10mph - which I did for half a mile on Tuesday morning, on my way to arriving late for work ?

One thing I like about automatic gearboxes (with torque converter) is the ease of driving in slow, stop start, conditions.

[andrew Ivimey]

Yes I agree. Oddly perhaps it was my last trip on the M6 where my manual gears vecame intolerable as we crawled along often not moving at all.

We got off the 'car park' asap and hurtled round country roads and after a couple of junctions resumed a southwards motorway experience. The traffic was flowing; so long suckers! I breathed to users of country roads and sped down the slip road at around 50mph. A mile later, round the corner, we were back in the 'car park'.

It was time to break open the picnic hamper.

[steve s]

To what I've read, 20 mph should be more economical than 30 mph, but it's difficult to achieve in normal driving, as takes very careful throttle control.
As we know, economical driving is about not using fuel (the accelerator) whilst maintaining a steady speed.

Thats something that road planners seem to miss when they plan roads around where I live.
So being green is not just about the individual.


My own experience is that its easier to maintain good mpg with a little momentum behind you, and 35 to 55mph gives me the better mpg, I'm used to riding powerfull motorbikes where a fraction of a turn of throttle will pull your arms from their sockets, so I'm generally extremely gentle (without thinking about it) on the accelerator, but I still struggle to drive as economically at slower speeds

Personally, I'm against a blanket 20 mph limit

There are a few 20 mph 'zones' that are really 30's in our area ( the council has deemed them 20's without the backing of the law)
And they are mostly in areas where only a fool would exceed 20 mph anyway, with a couple of exceptions

Of course in some parts of the country 20's have been implemented with the backing of the law, which I assume the Welsh parliament has done

[IslandPink]

To what I've read, 20 mph should be more economical than 30 mph, but it's difficult to achieve in normal driving, as takes very careful throttle control.
As we know, economical driving is about not using fuel (the accelerator) whilst maintaining a steady speed.

It's a good point Steve, the problem we have now is that people are driving anywhere between 10mph and 35mph, so keeping a steady speed is harder than before.

ps. the Welsh assembly didn't introduce this as a Green initiative - it was purely based on reducing the death & injury rate to very low levels. My impression is that the vast majority of us think that this could have been much better achieved by localised 20mph limits. However I don't think that they wanted to make the effort to do the detail work on this, they just developed an ideologiy which supported doing it on the cheap.

[Nick]

The road through Hebden Bridge has been 20mph for many years. The state of the tarmac is such that you would not want to drive any faster. Don't know if there is any connection between those two facts.

[shane]

Looks like the Chinese are getting things right. Battery swapping is on its way:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/nio/et5

[Greg]

Looks like the Chinese are getting things right. Battery swapping is on its way:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/nio/et5

I think more progress needs to be made before it’ll attract battery swapping buyers here. With a max range of 348 per battery charge and an annual bill of £3000 for four battery swaps per month, its running costs are very high. For now, home charging and (in my case) Tesla Superchargers have the edge, probably with this Nio as well.

[Ray P]

And they are mostly in areas where only a fool would exceed 20 mph anyway, with a couple of exceptions

Sadly, fools are a thriving species!

Anyway, I really am close to being zero emission, bodily functions aside. It's now two months since I decided not to pay the bill to get my old Volvo going (rust on the suspension mounts and a brake caliper problem) and I've only really missed having a car once, when I needed to take some stuff to the local tip (though a neighbour took care of it for me). I've switched to a fortnightly grocery delivery, have used the train (with a railcard) to visit my mum and generally cycle or walk. I'm about to apply for my bus pass too, though not sure how useful that will be given the limited services available. I'm quids in and keeping fit/active.

I know this won't work for too many people and I was already hardly using the car when I scrapped it.

Just looking into getting to Owston - it might be one of the occasions I need to hire a car if I decide to bring anything along.

[steve s]

Thats quite sensible ray and car hire for occasional use must work out much cheaper too.

[Neal]

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/ ... ance-costs

[Daniel Quinn]

That article amounts to one insurer refused to cover an individual with a Tesla and others charged him 5k . And John Lewis insurance as made a business decision not to cover electric vehicles .

The article quotes on average people with an electric vehicle pay £200 more than average petrol premiums .

An expense we would make back easy with saved fuel costs . Though of course motorability comes with insurance .