Zero emission road vehicles.

[Nick]

Meanwhile:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66724246

Must add my own hypocrisy having just bought another aging ICE.

[shane]

The problem with that is can you honestly say you can put your faith in Starmer and Rayner?

How any sane individual with even the faintest grasp of the qualities of the shit shower that’s been running this country for the last 13 years can seriously ask this question is completely beyond me.

[andrew Ivimey]

Just when you think it can't get any worse Sunak is about to address the people on .... OMG. He appears to lack any intelligence or expertise in doing anything more complicated than which shoes he will wear today.

We'll see won't we.

Starmer and Raynor get my vote - frustrating as he maybe but he isnt succumbing to the insidious constant whispering noise from the gutter press. An octopus could do better than the ridiculous, couldn't make this stuff up, gang - if only they had run away....okay Cameron actually did. Doing nothing about anything would have been better than the appalling damage the Tories continue to carry out. I cannot express myself on this. I can't find the words.

The Tories have proved they are incapable of running the country. Any next Government , probably Labour, will have to tread carefully to repair and rebuild, negotiate a way forward in an increasingly bleak world where we are now a laughing stock to the good, the bad, and everyone in between. We must not have anymore Tory ridiculousness or we are doomed.

[Nick]

We must not have anymore Tory ridiculousness or we are doomed.

If Labour win, they will do their best, get the place back to some semblance of sanity, then the Tories will get back in a burn it all down again.

Rinse, repeat

[andrew Ivimey]

Another shock horror story. Some Tory bastard donor and supporter and friend of Sunak has profited by £135million in four years supplying NHS with stuff. Pure profit.

[IslandPink]

In Wales we now have the problem that Drakeford has brought in a naive and brainless idea idea that we must drive at 20mph across the country to save a few accident lives, without understanding of the bigger picture. I viscerally resent the problem of having to drive in 3rd gear, take longer to get to work, increase my carbon footprint, and then face the problem that all Welsh Conservatives in the next election can use this as an easy wedge to gain power across the country and in the assembly, to further their short-sighted and ignorant ideas about climate change urgency.

[andrew Ivimey]

When I was doing my speed awareness course a few months ago (27 in a 20 zone - faur cop guv) the course leader explained that most peeps caught out were seniors who were used to 'the natural speed of 30' - it's in the Bible innit. 20 is unnatural. A modern generation grow up with 20mph being natural like we didn't.
But here's a thing that I reflected upon and I must admit to ignorance about almost all things carrish; if the revs are the same at 20mph in 3rd gear as the revs of 30mph in 4th gear isn't petrol consumption more or less the same?
Now, children do need protection and I'm appalled at how peeps drive here in the Shire, speed only being one problem - no car signals to show intention, u-turns in main roads, inability to park, cyclists getting bashed in a variety of ways - the motor cyclists in Beds&Cambs seem to have a death wish - they are terrifying and so on.
Now, isn't one rule to bind them I.e. 20mph a good idea? - we don't have to think; set speed auto to 20 and worry about other things whilst in urban places?
The roll out if 20mph zones here does seem a bit arbitrary and uneven - my mist local primary school enjoys a 30mph limit - posh village with no school around has 20mph thus helping the local gentility not having the bucolic peace of their privileged lifestyle turned into a rat run for the working plebs....it ain't easy I know

[pre65]

if the revs are the same at 20mph in 3rd gear as the revs of 30mph in 4th gear isn't petrol consumption more or less the same?

No. In your example one would travel 10 miles more in an hour.

MILES per gallon.

[andrew Ivimey]

OK, hadn't thought of that - what a silly bunt.

[pre65]

OK, hadn't thought of that - what a silly bunt.

I had a speed awareness course many years ago, and I still remember how much shorter stopping distances are at 30mph.(let alone 20mph)

But I agree with you,20mph does seem unnaturally slow.

As I drive an automatic car being in the right gear is not a pain.

[andrew Ivimey]

But perhaps driving a little slower is better for our blood pressure? Is there really a need to be hurrying everywhere. So, often we catch up with the speedy driver at the next set of lights anyway. All these spurts of testosterone laden gas pedalling is more wasteful than going a little slower?

[pre65]

But perhaps driving a little slower is better for our blood pressure? Is there really a need to be hurrying everywhere. So, often we catch up with the speedy driver at the next set of lights anyway. All these spurts of testosterone laden gas pedalling is more wasteful than going a little slower?

Quite so.

Much as I drive for safety and economy, I am a petrol-head at heart, and thoughts of V8 powered performance cars are never far away.

I can get annoyed with some of todays drivers, but then I remember how I drove in my youth.

[Nick]

I had a speed awareness course many years ago, and I still remember how much shorter stopping distances are at 30mph.(let alone 20mph)

While I sympathize, one could say, you should have known that to have a license in the first place. But I do have to admit, it was only in an awareness course that the penny dropped for me that kinetic energy was proportional to the square of the speed (which I had known since forever, but never applied to someone being hit by a car).

isn't petrol consumption more or less the same

While as Phil points out, the error in that thinking, petrol consumption with a modern engine should be a matter of work done rather than simple engine speed.

Its instructive doing a google search on fuel consumption at 20mph, not because of the information it returns, but because the answer you get seems to be entirely dependent on what the writers view on 20mph speed limits are.

[Greg]

We’ve had the 20 mph speed limit in Bristol for a few years now. After a while, you just get used to it. It ceases to be an annoyance although concentration on speed remains an issue where the general road conditions influence an inclination to speed up. A bit of fine tuning to the regulations would make sense but I have no expectation it will happen.

[andrew Ivimey]

Ha! they would say that wouldn't they. (Nick)

It's funny what one dreams about in speed awareness courses....( one bloke didnt want to be there and groaned at any suggestion, wouldn't co-operate, wouldn't turn his phone off and when it rang a confrontation ensued and then he refused to leave ...
However I suppose getting the -'stopping speed at 20-/30' concept is probably the most important thing one can take away from the occasion.