trying a dl103

IslandPink · Post by **IslandPink** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:34 pm

That's correct on the voltage calc Richard , but I would expect the 103 to sound rather sat-on and tonally flat with such a low load . I've been there once because the leaflet says '40 ohms through a step-up transformer' but it didn't work out for me .

Is the phono a commercial or home-made one ?
I'd not expect a well designed phono to overload so easily with eg. 11mV ( ie. with a lighter load ) , but commercial gear can have some serious shortcuts .

MJ

richardcooper2k · Post by **richardcooper2k** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:35 pm

blimey, there's a lot of possible combinations of step up ratio, loading value and primary or secondary.

maybe i should try the same load but on the secondary next
or try the 1:18 step ratio which would give me 145 ohms on its own if my calcs are right 47k '/. 18 '/. 18

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:26 pm

Hi Richard,

Do you have a resistor on the secondary still?

I have found that most TXs will exhibit a peak at high freq if left unloaded, try between 500k to 1Meg. At 1:10 the effect on overall cart load will be slight and can be can be compensated for on the primary.

richardcooper2k · Post by **richardcooper2k** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:32 pm

no, but wouldn't the 47k on the phono stage do this or is it too far away, down the wiring

Richard Higgins · Post by **Richard Higgins** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:34 am

IslandPink wrote:That's correct on the voltage calc Richard , but I would expect the 103 to sound rather sat-on and tonally flat with such a low load . I've been there once because the leaflet says '40 ohms through a step-up transformer' but it didn't work out for me .

Is the phono a commercial or home-made one ?
I'd not expect a well designed phono to overload so easily with eg. 11mV ( ie. with a lighter load ) , but commercial gear can have some serious shortcuts .

MJ

Hi Mark
My phono is a Phono II, but the comment about the overload is from the article. With the cinemags it works for me.
Incidently, I believe that the Denon step-ups designed for the 103 were 40 Ohmn.

Regards Richard H

richardcooper2k · Post by **richardcooper2k** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:43 am

i read somewhere about soldering resistors across phono plugs and using a 2 into one phono connector to make changing the loading easyer (i think on the wd forum ?). even easier if you have a few cheap phono plugs to use. though not quite as sophisticated as the resistor switch box dtb and others have made. i have the primaries and secondaries connected to phono plugs so i can do this with primary or secondary loading

a benefit of this is i have been able to switch while the music is still playing which makes any difference more obvious and less subjective.

currently i have left 680r on the primary and still 47k across the input of my phono. i have been playing with adding more resistors across the secondary with this set up. as i reduce the value of the resistor i notice that the volume seems to drop a bit. also bass weight increases and high frequencys are reduced.

so far i am down to the equivalent of 150 ohm loading on the cart (24k added to the setup above) which seems to be lower than most people use.
prehaps this is because as we found at owston my phono stage produces less bass detail compared to a lot of the others we listened to. it has also occured to me i might want different loading with different types of music or different recording styles; a bit like having a tone control.

i would be interested to hear if people have noticed any other changes to the sound/music when changing step up set up that i could listen for, to help me evaluate what works for me in my present system

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:58 pm

If you load the cart down with a smaller resistor I would expect it the result to be quieter as more current is getting grounded. I would have also expected more bass as well, to less a load and it all gets a bit to zippy and zingy.

richardcooper2k · Post by **richardcooper2k** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:29 pm

oh dear, just to add to my confusion i think some of the differences in sound i'm noticing may be down to using resistors which are not the same (as well as being different values). they're all blue though so i assume metal film.

i'm not scoring very highly for scientific method

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Tue May 06, 2008 7:16 pm

I wouldn't recommend these as the be all and end all, some nice boutique might better when you settle on a value. But, uou could also use these on small low power slots on kit building and bread boarding etc.

http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo. ... sistor+kit

andrew Ivimey · Post by **andrew Ivimey** » Tue May 06, 2008 8:54 pm

Aha, but how often do we put that metal oxide resistor in a circuit well meaningly 'just to get it right' and intend to come back with a shinkoh or Allen Bradley - but do we?

Where have all the resistors gone?

All those intermediate values and useful ones seem to be dropping like flies from both RS and Farnell. I never thought I'd ever be so careful about reclaiming thrice used resistors from old circuits but this is just what I am doing.

Even Kiwames are expensive for 'just a resistor' , but what happens when they disappear to?

Help!

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:00 pm

Yep, I've also noticed the decline in available resistor values. Andrew's recovery/recycling advise seems very sound to me. I am also doing this.

richardcooper2k · Post by **richardcooper2k** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:12 am

latest observations:

'here i go again' - whitesnake from a compilation album (probably compressed) with 150 ohm loading sounded very dull. with loading at 300 ohm it came back to life

choral music e.g. 'messiah' - 300 ohm loading seems a bit harsh and difficult to hear what's going on. with 150 ohm loading much more pleasant to listen to but also i could hear all the different voices and instruments

i'll be ordering those resistors thankyou andrew, what do they charge for postage if the order is less than £30 ?

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Wed May 07, 2008 4:14 pm

No idea on postage I always find something to make it up to £30, the do some nice carbon comp (more expensive) and some reasonable carbon films (higher wattage available) is similar kits. I wouldn't be without these now great for prototyping ....and once I settle on the value and if the position is critical I can then buy something boutique.

IslandPink · Post by **IslandPink** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:40 pm

Just been leafing through some old 'HiFi Answers' magazines . It's interesting to note that the DL103 cost £75 to £80 in 1979 , and the 103D was around £160 . The Supex 900 was then only in the £100 range . Pretty amazing, then , the current-day price ?

MJ

Will · Post by **Will** » Sun May 11, 2008 5:31 pm

I've just dumped some old mags and I spotted a nude 103 mounted on a ally block priced at £1150.00, it had a fancy upmarket name and so it should.

audio-talk

trying a dl103

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