Which Amp is the one for me????

[andrew Ivimey]

Yep, and there's a possibility of dreadful irony here, too.

I'm off to watch the telly. If its a larff its a larff, if not .... let's see shall we?

best to you all and laters ....

[pre65]

Hmmm

A question like "what amp is best and why" come to think of it is no question at all. Is it a piss take or what? I feel a bit daft for biting now, and a teensy weensy bit pissed off too.

Steve

Well,if you were an inexperienced newbie would it not be a sensible question to ask ?

Lets keep a sense of perspective please gents (and ladies).

[colin.hepburn]

cant see a problem with Ian's post he just wants to now what way to go with his audio heaven
so we have asked the important Q's to help Ian so more details from Ian will be helpfully so bring it on Ian
Cheers

[Strummer]

Wow, I didn't expect that reaction

Anyway, it was a serious question. Obviously I understand that there is no definitive “best”, but I’m sure each person on here has their own idea of what is best & that’s what I was looking for. See if there’s a general consensus.

OK, music wise, I cut my teeth in the early ‘70s & never really left that rut. Most (probably 95%) of my collection would have been recorded between 1965-75. I like a range of music Rock, Blues, Jazz, Soul etc..

Being brought up playing Vinyl, I’ve always struggled with the harshness of the SS systems I’ve owned so far. I’m looking for a lovely Warm, Rich sound, but with Clarity & Separation. I’m more interested in enjoying my music that total accuracy. I don’t want Clinical, but maybe a bit of Sugar coating. Plenty of low Bass. Something that will treat my old Led Zep CDs with a bit of respect & make them sound a good as they can.

My listening room is fairly big (6.5 x 5.5 metres) & I have a big pair of Tannoy FSMs. I do tend to listen quite loud, although this is generally because I feel the systems I’ve had sound flat & lifeless at low volumes.

So basically, I’m just looking for a few pointers. Which amp will give me the characteristics I’m looking for? 300b SET or EL34 Push Pull?


Thanks for any help.
Ian

[Greg]

Ok, to get into perspective, I took Philips post with the homour that was intended. He knows I can laugh at my own short comings!

We (or at least I) don't know Ian (Strummer) and certainly his post or question is extremely naive in the eyes of most established here. Were we all not once in that position, some of us, myself included retaining a level of naivety others manage to cast off?

Regardless, Welcome Ian!

Ian may have also come from forums where he is familiar with superficial chat and has not as yet recognised the depth of knowledged shared on Audio-Talk.

So Ian, assuming you are coming from that position we all have been in, with very limited knowledge and experience, if you disregard the bluntness, Paul's reply to you is spot on for an excellent place to start. There is no definitive best amp in this game. Everything is completely subjective relating to the listeners music preferences, choice of coupling equipment, listening environment and most essentially, synergy of the system as a whole. Consequently we all have different systems and personal preferences.

Having said that, there is a definable progressive route of amp (valve) choices that can be made and I'm sure all here will agree that it is impossible to simply arrive at the best from the outset. We all learn and play, discover and self educate, feed off each others experiences and end up producing good listening systems as a result.

So I would say, join in and learn. Audio Nirvana is a long road, for some never ending and don't be put off by the bluntness of some remarks above. In all honesty, people like Andrew I, Paul Barker, Darren, Steve et al are some of the nicest people you could ever meet and in real time are laid back and cool. We also mostly know each other personally and recognise that without intention, it easily causes a clique mentality to form. Fundamentally, no one wants to be cliquish or elitist and of course, everyone is welcome.

Stay with us Ian and you'll not look back. This forums members are some of the most enterprising valve amp and speaker developers currently making things happen and continue to both push the boundaries on development or also recover knowledge long since pass away.

I hope that helps,

Best wishes,

Greg

[pre65]

Hi Ian-my first amp build was using a dual tetrode transmitter valve (832A) as PP (push pull) and i really like the "gutsy" sound.

I recently modded it with a CC (constant current) source to the dual cathodes and it has transformed the sound.

Now it IS "GUTSY" with increased,more tuneful and lower bass,without loosing the vibrant midrange.

I also have several SE (single ended) amps which i also like,but they dont have the "balls" of the 832A.

I hope to bring the revitalised 832A to the next fest

[Dave the bass]

I 'spose what we need to know is are you a builder or a buyer Ian?

I was in your position last year, I've since built 3 DIY SE and 1 World Designs Kit-amp KT88 PP amp. All are very good IMO.

DTB

[Strummer]

thanks guys.

I must point out at this point, I am no DIYer. Would love to be, but wouldn't have a clue & would end up electrocuting myself & my kids

I've been introduced to Nick, who has kindly offered to build me an amp or do any mods should I buy one.

"GUTSY" is definitely a quality I would add to my list of requirements.

[Strummer]

I 'spose what we need to know is are you a builder or a buyer Ian?

I was in your position last year, I've since built 3 DIY SE and 1 World Designs Kit-amp KT88 PP amp. All are very good IMO.

DTB

BUYER definitely Dave. As per my last post. I would love to have a go one day, but certainly not ready at this point.

[shane]

OK, here's a question to get you fighting amongst yourselves

Well, it worked! Well done...

Which Valve amp is the best & why?

The one you like the sound of best, in your system, in your room. With a bit of luck you may find out which one that is one day. Unfortunately, no-one else but you can tell which one it is, but you can have a lot of fun and make some good friends finding out.










Try not to tread on too many toes on the way. Some of us have corns! Otherwise, welcome!

[colin.hepburn]

Ian
I can only echo what Greg said in his post most of the lads do now each other I don’t know them but I can say that you are in good hands on here yes one or two can rant a bit but don’t let that bother you its just the way we are on here Ian If you are thinking of building you amp take a look at this thread as a starter http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=335 now you will see the sort of help you can get from the lads welcome to the forum Ian

[Cressy Snr]

Hi Ian

Please accept my apologies for a somewhat sceptical attitude to your initial posts. As Greg has said, we don't bite, but I for one have been subjected to rudeness, scorn and plain hostility on another forum, such that it became hard work posting anything without ending up in a slanging match. One can get a bit defensive in that situation and the talk of setting people fighting amongst ourselves was a bit unfortunate.

So to business. As Paul mentioned the push pull EL34 amp is a very good place to start. It was where I started. I had an Icon Audio Stereo 40i from David Shaw in Leicester which introduced me to the delights of valve amplification and since then I have never looked back.

Dave is a very helpful fellow and a real enthusiast. He does push pull EL34 amps, KT88 amps and a push-pull 300B amp plus valve phono stages all with the capability to drive real world speakers.

Here is a link to his site

http://www.iconaudio.co.uk/

[Nick]

Oh, I think I had better fill in a bit of background. Our last few new members are my doing. Andy is the chap with the Decware amps, I think I mentioned I was changing from 125v to 240v. He knows another HiFi person, Ian (Strummer) we thinks he needs to start using a valve amp, but was unsure. I had a chat with him and suggested he come over to thi splace, as he could see that he wasn't alone in the wilderness, and there were a few more tourtured souls he might find good to meet. If I remember, he has a pair of Tannoy FSMs that might work well with a 300b.

While I am doing the intros, the other Ian (Walker) who joined, is a friend of Strummers, who currently has a Naim setup, and thinks that its a dead end, and maybe valves are the way to go (sounds a bit familier that one ), so again, I suggested that he comes here and says hi.

So, not a troll, though, it is rather nice to see the collective defense mechanism kicking in, hopefull that means you feel this place is worth defending .

Strummer, maybe I should have given you a bit of history of this place. It might seem now a bit of a closed shop, its not the case, its just that many of the folk here have met at audio get togethers, so we know each other, hopefully you will meet many of them as well, they are woth knowing.

The reason your question set off a few alarms was it contained a couple of words, "best" and "fighting". One of the reasons some (me for example) hang out here, is we got fed up of other forums having "thought police" insisting that there was a collective agrrement about what was best, and at times what seemed a liking of just argument for its own sake.

There are a lot of people here, who are following their own audio path, to what works for them. I think the idea of "best", can invoke the same sort of "new model, must be better" mentaility that the hifi comics and the industry like to create, hopefully we are all trying to find whats best for us, but we found along the way, that we all have a slightly different best. Again, alot of that feeling is created by the meetings, its very easy on the internet to appear to be an expert, but actually playing your equipment in other peoples rooms, makes a big difference. Actually, every time we have one of the meetings, I thin we all come away with our own ideas.

Of course, as the membership increases, its not going to be the case that we can all meet up, but I hope the idea of small local meets, stays, even if we dont all meet, there will be overlap between groups, so I may not have met person X, but I have met Y, who has met X. You get the idea. May not work out, but I think its worth trying.

Oh, and by the way, creating a valve amp that sounds as you describe, is easy, just drive a 300b with the wrong valve, and use the wrong power supply. The chalange, is not loosing the best features of solid state, and the best features of valves.

There are more paths taking place around here than just amps though, speakers are just a big thing, as you may see, and then there is the issue of source.

Sory, about the long ramble folks, but I hopes it would help matters.

[Strummer]

Thanks again guys. Absolutely no offence taken by me. I’m well aware that the internet is full of “trolls” & “Keyboard Warriors”. I can assure you, I’m not one of them. I’m just looking for a bit of advice.

I have had a few people bring Valve Amps round to my house. The likes of the Prima Luna Prologue 2 & the Icon Audio you mention. Both very nice, but not enough balls for the job in hand.

My speakers are these
(couldn't Post pic)

Tannoy FSM. Those drivers are 15” each. They are supposed to be 97Db, but I feel they are quite a load with both drivers in circuit. The likes of those amps perform OK driving just the Dual Concentric, but when I add the Bass driver in, you can hear the life being sapped out of them.

I promise you all now, my “get you fighting amongst yourselves” comment was not intended in the way some took it. I would have hoped the Smiley would have indicated that. I was merely inferring that you will all have your own opinions about what does the job best.

OK, so if you will permit me to start again :

I’m looking to BUY a Power Amp (not build).

I’m looking for something that’s Warm, Rich, Gutsy with space around instruments. I like lots of bass. I don’t like a Clinical sound.

My room is 6.5 x 5.5 Metres & I like to be able to play LOUD!!! (sometimes).


If anyone can give me a few pointers, given the criteria. I only trust my own ear, but a few pointers, where to look, would be very welcome. The question I was asking is which Valve / Configuration is likely to give me the characteristics I’ve described? Maybe there is no answer to that. Maybe a 300b SET can sound thin & bright or fat & warm??? I don’t know.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to cause a fight.


Thanks for any advice!

Ian

[Nick]

Here is a picture for Ian



Hopefully its the right one