I am on primary loading - 333R at the moment. It's sounding good TBH IMHO AFAIK FWIW !!
Phono Cartridge Loading
#62
For what its worth....
....if, and its a big if....
If I could build a low impedance supply high voltage that was quiet enough, and can deliver ~60mA then I would do away with the step ups altogether, just to see if it would make the kind of difference that I suspect it might.
The big problem is building the supply, finding the right valve and marrying that to the right RIAA followed by the right gain stage, all made more difficult by the fact I'd like the RIAA to be low Z LCR. Ah I can dream....
cheers,
-- Andrew
....if, and its a big if....
If I could build a low impedance supply high voltage that was quiet enough, and can deliver ~60mA then I would do away with the step ups altogether, just to see if it would make the kind of difference that I suspect it might.
The big problem is building the supply, finding the right valve and marrying that to the right RIAA followed by the right gain stage, all made more difficult by the fact I'd like the RIAA to be low Z LCR. Ah I can dream....
cheers,
-- Andrew
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Dave the bass
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#63
Why thank you young man <blushes, polite cough onto back of hand and adjusts hair>.Lee S wrote:Oh my, Dave!! What a beautiful knob you have on your box!!
I am on primary loading - 333R at the moment. It's sounding good TBH IMHO AFAIK FWIW !!
Yes, 220/330R seems to be where something is going on that's nice..
More listening (then Have I got news for you...the programme not a statement).
DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
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Dave the bass
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#64
So.Andrew wrote: The big problem is building the supply, finding the right valve and marrying that to the right RIAA followed by the right gain stage, all made more difficult by the fact I'd like the RIAA to be low Z LCR. Ah I can dream....
Let me get this right.
It's just the designing//buying/modding/buying/building/modding/redesigning bit we've got to conquer then we're there yes
Hmmmmmmmm...<rubs chin ala Waynes World> ..."it's almost tooooo easy"...
DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
#65
Well, catching up on threads after a bit of a lay off, this one has got me a bit intrigued. Hmm, Denon 103....if I tried again, would I need to east my hat OK, previous experience for me was in a Rega arm and clearly this is not good. I've heard the 103 sound respectable in some other arms at fests. How would it go in my Mayware F4? Still got to finish that. I presume I'll still have to deal with the mass issue. Thoughts anyone?
Best wishes,
Greg
OK, previous experience for me was in a Rega arm and clearly this is not good. I've heard the 103 sound respectable in some other arms at fests. How would it go in my Mayware F4? Still got to finish that. I presume I'll still have to deal with the mass issue. Thoughts anyone?Best wishes,
Greg
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Paul Barker
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#66
From what Darren said about your Ortophon I doubt you'll find the 103 anything but wooden.
I like the 103 as a cooking cartridge, maybe everyday use, but for special music/occasions finer resolution/delicacy longer decay greater depths searched by an spu yet without the loss of Japanese audiophile desirability.
It's always worth checking if we are keeping up with the Japanese,
I like the 103 as a cooking cartridge, maybe everyday use, but for special music/occasions finer resolution/delicacy longer decay greater depths searched by an spu yet without the loss of Japanese audiophile desirability.
It's always worth checking if we are keeping up with the Japanese,
#67
Go on Greg, get out the Maywire and slap on a 20p with some blutack.
Seriously, the 103, really isn't a complete stinker and who can complain for £85. I have always thought the primary loading would get around your complaints about the pace and timing of the 103.
I recall your face when you last heard the modified Thorsten, a phono you had originally liked at Witham. I had changed nothing, or very little, and yet it clearly didn't float your boat. I suspect it was the 103 into the secondary loaded S&B's that you were really hearing. Tho' perhaps memory serves me badly 'coz I'm now not sure what the cart was, anyway, if you fancy a diversion the 103 is worth the effort.
cheers,
-- Andrew
Seriously, the 103, really isn't a complete stinker and who can complain for £85. I have always thought the primary loading would get around your complaints about the pace and timing of the 103.
I recall your face when you last heard the modified Thorsten, a phono you had originally liked at Witham. I had changed nothing, or very little, and yet it clearly didn't float your boat. I suspect it was the 103 into the secondary loaded S&B's that you were really hearing. Tho' perhaps memory serves me badly 'coz I'm now not sure what the cart was, anyway, if you fancy a diversion the 103 is worth the effort.
cheers,
-- Andrew
#68
Hi Greg.
This is the first time I have heard a 103. I have owned lots of carts in the past and a couple of them were reasonably high end (XX-2, Te-Kaitora) and I don't think I would go as far as calling the 103 wooden. It's obviously not in the same league as these aforementioned top line carts, but what do you want for £82 ??!?!
If you have a perfectly good cart already (Ortofon?) then why change if you are happy with it? I only bought the 103 for two reasons really. a) I can't afford an SPU at the moment and b) it was a little experiment and play so I could say that I have heard one. I wasn't expecting miracles to be honest, but I am certainly astounded that something so cheap can sound "quite good, really".
Thinking about it though, the upside to using a 103 on a permanent basis is sheer economy. At £80 I can afford to replace it every year if need be. Lack of worry when other people are using it is a bonus too. It's just one thing less to worry about. I have got records that are worth more than the cart. When I had a Te-Kaitora in my system, I couldn't sleep at night. No stylus guard, £2k worth just waiting to be ruined. Fortunately it didn't happen, but how much worrying did I do? If the 103 gets trashed.... yeah.. whatever... I'll just get a new one. I can get 25 103s for the price of just one TK!!
I'd never spend that much again now. I think there is probably 80-90% of the performance of those expensive carts in the 103, but it is so much more enjoyable as I am not constantly worrying about it.
The downsides to the 103. Well.. after playing with mine for a few days, I now know what it needs with respect to loading and setting up in MY system. Yours may be different, but don't expect to be able to bolt it to an arm and have it work straight away. I have been fiddling with VTF, VTA, Azimuth, primary loading, secondary loading, step up ratio, damping, mass loading, blah blah. It's a tinkerer's cart, make no mistake. It is fun trying to squeeze that last drop of performance out of it, knowing that it was so cheap in the first place. It's just a fun cart to play with. If you don't like it, sell it on. There are always people that will want it. I suspect that you like tinkering as much as the rest of us though!!
I dearly want an SPU-N, but again, will I enjoy it as much? It will probably outperform the 103 (or whatever other cheapo cart I decide to try next), but there is always a nagging thing in my mind, that, yes, it will wear out and need replacing. Yes, it is possible it will get damaged or broken. You pays yer money, you takes yer chances.
Will a 103 work on a Mayware? Yes, probably. Any cart will work on any arm (virtually). Will it sound good on a Mayware though? Maybe. Maybe not!! Who knows? I have never tried as I have never owned a Mayware. Why not try it and let us know what you think??
Cheers
This is the first time I have heard a 103. I have owned lots of carts in the past and a couple of them were reasonably high end (XX-2, Te-Kaitora) and I don't think I would go as far as calling the 103 wooden. It's obviously not in the same league as these aforementioned top line carts, but what do you want for £82 ??!?!
If you have a perfectly good cart already (Ortofon?) then why change if you are happy with it? I only bought the 103 for two reasons really. a) I can't afford an SPU at the moment and b) it was a little experiment and play so I could say that I have heard one. I wasn't expecting miracles to be honest, but I am certainly astounded that something so cheap can sound "quite good, really".
Thinking about it though, the upside to using a 103 on a permanent basis is sheer economy. At £80 I can afford to replace it every year if need be. Lack of worry when other people are using it is a bonus too. It's just one thing less to worry about. I have got records that are worth more than the cart. When I had a Te-Kaitora in my system, I couldn't sleep at night. No stylus guard, £2k worth just waiting to be ruined. Fortunately it didn't happen, but how much worrying did I do? If the 103 gets trashed.... yeah.. whatever... I'll just get a new one. I can get 25 103s for the price of just one TK!!
I'd never spend that much again now. I think there is probably 80-90% of the performance of those expensive carts in the 103, but it is so much more enjoyable as I am not constantly worrying about it.The downsides to the 103. Well.. after playing with mine for a few days, I now know what it needs with respect to loading and setting up in MY system. Yours may be different, but don't expect to be able to bolt it to an arm and have it work straight away. I have been fiddling with VTF, VTA, Azimuth, primary loading, secondary loading, step up ratio, damping, mass loading, blah blah. It's a tinkerer's cart, make no mistake. It is fun trying to squeeze that last drop of performance out of it, knowing that it was so cheap in the first place. It's just a fun cart to play with. If you don't like it, sell it on. There are always people that will want it. I suspect that you like tinkering as much as the rest of us though!!
I dearly want an SPU-N, but again, will I enjoy it as much? It will probably outperform the 103 (or whatever other cheapo cart I decide to try next), but there is always a nagging thing in my mind, that, yes, it will wear out and need replacing. Yes, it is possible it will get damaged or broken. You pays yer money, you takes yer chances.
Will a 103 work on a Mayware? Yes, probably. Any cart will work on any arm (virtually). Will it sound good on a Mayware though? Maybe. Maybe not!! Who knows? I have never tried as I have never owned a Mayware. Why not try it and let us know what you think??
Cheers
©2020 Lee
#69
Would a 103 need extra mass in a ladegaard parallel tracker? I don't believe that Vic used extra mass with his 103 on his arm.
edit: Vic tells me he made a high mass arm for the 103, worked fine but he now uses a 304 which he much prefers (a lot more expensive too). He also says many people use 103s in his arm without extra mass. Still don't know if mass would help. I'll have to try it sometime.
edit: Vic tells me he made a high mass arm for the 103, worked fine but he now uses a 304 which he much prefers (a lot more expensive too). He also says many people use 103s in his arm without extra mass. Still don't know if mass would help. I'll have to try it sometime.
Last edited by Clive on Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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andrew Ivimey
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#70
Hello Greg, nice to have you back, so to speak.
Mayware and 103 rest happily on your old piece of wood. I added extra mass as a coil of solder between arm and cartridge. I like it.
And then I agree with the others. I am clumsyso Kontrapunkt stays in a box, but teh 103 continues to give me pleasure. (can't remember whether I've broken one or two cantilevers but at least with a unipivot I can get at the cartridge easily.
Ggggrrrrrr and strangled rage when trying to use an RB300.
Mayware and 103 rest happily on your old piece of wood. I added extra mass as a coil of solder between arm and cartridge. I like it.
And then I agree with the others. I am clumsyso Kontrapunkt stays in a box, but teh 103 continues to give me pleasure. (can't remember whether I've broken one or two cantilevers but at least with a unipivot I can get at the cartridge easily.
Ggggrrrrrr and strangled rage when trying to use an RB300.
#71
now I've got over my decorating I'm looking forward to getting a 103 and trying it in my mayware,
on the mayware would it be possible to add mass to the headshell by having the cursor all the way forward and setting the VTF on the counterweight,
I also have a Grace 704 to try it in, they used to supply a lead headshell weight to increase mass but I doubt I could come across one now, mind you it shouldn't be too hard to make one out of lead flashing,
on the mayware would it be possible to add mass to the headshell by having the cursor all the way forward and setting the VTF on the counterweight,
I also have a Grace 704 to try it in, they used to supply a lead headshell weight to increase mass but I doubt I could come across one now, mind you it shouldn't be too hard to make one out of lead flashing,
David
Wasps are the Katie Price of the Animal Kingdom - utterly pointless and bloody irritating!
Wasps are the Katie Price of the Animal Kingdom - utterly pointless and bloody irritating!
#75
I just can't leave things alone can I ?!?!? 
Changed loading again from 333R to 500R. I think I am definitely going to stick with this now. It is a slightly more open, organic sound with a more "rounded" feel to it. Less harsh again.
That's it now!!! Honestly... no more fiddling with anything phono!! Promise!!
Cheers
Changed loading again from 333R to 500R. I think I am definitely going to stick with this now. It is a slightly more open, organic sound with a more "rounded" feel to it. Less harsh again.
That's it now!!! Honestly... no more fiddling with anything phono!! Promise!!
Cheers
©2020 Lee