Phono Cartridge Loading

[Lee S]

I am just listening to "Protection" by Massive Attack. I know this album inside out. I am hearing plenty of bass now. It is superb. The thing is, I am also hearing things that I have never heard on CD or using my previous vinyl replay systems. There are slight, but now obvious, tonal inflections that I am picking up on. The sound is so balanced too. Spacious and rich. I think the pioneering experiment (AFAIK) of fitting a 103 to a Gray 108 is a complete success story IMHO.

How CAN you get some much info out of a groove using a lowly spherical stylus though???

[Gerry]

Lee

It looks as if you have really got ti sorted now.

I prefer the 1:20 over 1:10 but give it another try and see what you prefer.

I think the 103R does have the edge on the 103, it is more refined & subtle. About 20 hrs is when they really begin to shine.

Regards
Gerry

[Andrew]

There's a 'under/sub' bassline on one of the songs on that MA album, second song in first side I think, from memory, Karmacoma. The bass rolls along and about half way through on evey 4th sub subeat there's some understrone.

I remember the first time I heard it on and thinking WTF was that! Whhummmp.....whummmp etc

Then I lost it and can't get it back.....I hate it when that happens...I know I need a new 103R...

cheers,

-- Andrew

[Lee S]

Side 2 of "Protection" is a hideous pressing and it will make most carts mistrack badly. No exception here. Will have to have a play with alignment a little more carefully. VTF was about 2.8g. Lowered it to 2.4g. Sounds better now. Not right though. Bass is thunderous but tight and accurate now. Yaaay!!!

[Andrew]

Yes where's the sparksssss and get me an electricccian, poor old Tracey Thorn....a sod to get it to track properly..

It really does sound like your getting there Lee, whats the phono btw?

cheers,

-- Andrew

[Lee S]

Hi Andrew.

The venerable WAD PhonoII with JJ ECC83Ss and Jupiter coupling caps, 3.18uS mod, 1M load with Lundahl 9206 at 1:20 and 333R primary load.

Just re-aligned the arm/cart (bit tricky with the Gray - fixed offset, fixed cart position). I have it 99% spot on now. Back to 2.7g and it's sounding better now. Still mistracking on "Better Things". Spherical stylus problem coupled with a crap cutting I guess. That will do for today!!

Just ordered the extra chokes for the C3g from Mr. Ramsey. Waiting for them and the valves now and then I can forge ahead!!

Cheers

[Dave the bass]

Connected up last night with 560R across the primary.

Errr, grey is the word I'd use. It doesn't seem to cut the mustard anymore. I was going to get hold of a 6 way 2P switch and try switching in resistors between 100R (which I liked) up to 560R (which I don't) hear where and how it's changing the sound. I was tired last night whereas the night before I was wide awake, so it might have been me, I'll play around over the weekend and iron-out the 'me' side of things.

DTB

EDIT. I forgot to mention too that there seemed to be an out-of-phasey thing going on too, something about the sound made me feel uncomfortable. I couldn't settle and get lost in it like I normally do.

[pre65]

Hi-i was having a chat with John Caswell yesterday about a small problem with my Phono 3 and in conversation he mentioned that the Denon DL103 loading resistance was different depending on the type of input.

I cant now remember the details (age,before DTB chips in ) but anyone else seen this ?

[Lee S]

Well after a couple of days of using 1:20 on the SUTs, I can safely say that I prefer 1:10 !!!!

1:20 was immediately more beguiling for some reason, but led to fatigue rapidly in my case. Changing back to 1:10 has brought back the less harsh and tiring sound that was there before.

I think it is also safe to say that the lack of bass weight I was experiencing was down to incorrect VTA as well as lack of run-in. It is interesting to hear Dave's take on the primary loading effect as well as the loading value. Now that my VTA is spot on, VTF is spot on, alignment is spot on and SUT configuration is spot on, I can concentrate on loading, be it primary or secondary.

I am tempted to fit 4 RCAs to the back of the PhonoII case so I can just use phono plugs with the required values fitted. 2 for the secondary loading and 2 for the primary loading. They are only parallel resistances in both cases so fitting plugs shouldn't bother the overall sound quality much, if at all. Getting sick of opening case, soldering, closing case, opening case, solderi.... you get the idea.

Just invested in one of those cheap little 50g/0.01g digital scales too. See if it is any more accurate or easier to use than the Shure balance. That is a bit tricky to use with damping involved. Doesn't seem to be very consistent.

Cheers

[Dave the bass]

Yep, popped over to Craplins at lunchtime and bought some bits. I got my 2P 4W switch, fitted it into a little project box with 2 pairs of 'in' and 'out' phono sockets and can now load the primary from between 100R and 470R at the turn of a switch with one position left open so there's no loading as a reference. I've got 100/220/330/400/470R to play with tonight when I get home.

Onwards (as AndrewI says )

DTB

[simon]

I have some of those scales Lee - proper DIY stuff at the right money. You probably know, but be aware that they can be slightly magnetic so can give a slightly false reading. I use a piece of card bent to make a platform above the scales so the cart is not influenced by the magnetic attraction of the scales.

[Lee S]

Cool !!! Look forward to hearing your opinions Dave.

[Lee S]

Oh that's good news Simon. Wasn't sure if they'd be up to the job or not. I guess as they seem to be designed for dope and crack dealers they have to be fairly accurate!! The ones I got come with a little plastic lid that, inverted, forms a tray. That should be enough to isolate the platform hopefully. Gotta be better than the Shures. They are not bad but a bit antwaccy and inconsistent in my case.

[Dave the bass]

Cool !!! Look forward to hearing your opinions Dave.

My opinions are so far thus.

Winter is crap.
Beer is great.
Prince 'Emancipation' 3 CD blockbuster through the workshop 6B4G is more than a bit good.
It's possible to spend a lot of time building daft little audio projects.
I post a lot of drivel.

Possibly more drivel tonight

DTB

[Dave the bass]

Fed and awake tonight so in goes the Prima-loada-tron as it's named (TM DTB Products 2007).


All this is IMHO,
Initial impressions are... well yes, primary loading deffo makes a difference. Starting with 'no load' the sound was rough and brighter than I'm used to, not nice. Next position is the 100R setting which attenuated the whole sound a smidge but removed a lot of the roughness, 220 and 330 are very close sounding to one another but overall my current faves (330R having the edge). 400 and 470 are veering towards some weird phasey kind of thing (it doesn't notice all the time but I'm sure of it, I don't think it's my 'wanting' it to sound like that). I'm currently listening to 'Grace and Danger' by John Martyn, know it inside out, very crisp dry recording with some beautiful drum and keyboard parts, on 'Sweet little mystery' I could actually attenuate that really high keyboard string sound by switching loads! DJ DTB inda mix y'all

Too soon to tell if it's the the best thing since the last best thingso I'll just carry on all weekend doing jobs and coming back to the sound seeing as it looks like it's gonna be a wet weekend.

S'good this innit.

DTB

EDIT Julies listening to Astral Weeks, it's very hard to tell any difference now except 'no-load' which is rough again but not so notice able than on the JM LP. Odd.