What do instruments actually sound like?

Subjects that don't have their own home
Post Reply
chris661
Shed dweller
Posts: 2556
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:29 am
Location: Sheffield

#1 What do instruments actually sound like?

Post by chris661 »

I thought this was interesting, and that it might spark some discussion:

http://soundmedia.jp/nuaudk/11Hn/index.html

It's a simple, but extensive, bit of work: they've got some classical musicians to each sit in the middle of a whole bunch of high-quality microphones, and they've made it easy to click between which microphones you're hearing.

ie, you can listen to how an instrument sounds depending on where you're sitting.


I suspect this raises some interesting questions with regards to what constitutes "high fidelity", but for now I just think it's an interesting thing to play around with.

Chris
User avatar
andrew Ivimey
Social Sevices have been notified
Posts: 8307
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
Location: Bedford

#2 Re: What do instruments actually sound like?

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Ooooooooooooo, hours of endlessly thought provoking musing........ and it all boils down to subjectivism.

I like it.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
User avatar
Dave the bass
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 12273
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 4:36 pm
Location: NW Kent, Darn Sarf innit.

#3 Re: What do instruments actually sound like?

Post by Dave the bass »

Like plus wun etc etc etc.

Fave Contrabass 'sound' for me is .... from the instrument to mic=250cm, AB : DPA 4006 AB50cm / RME Micstasy Gain 33, PZM : Schoeps BLM 03C Spaced Pair 50cm / RME Micstasy Gain 37.

It's got it 'all'.
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
simon
Thermionic Monk Status
Posts: 5600
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:22 am
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire

#4 Re: What do instruments actually sound like?

Post by simon »

Dave the bass wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:00 pm Fave Contrabass 'sound' for me is .... from the instrument to mic=250cm, AB : DPA 4006 AB50cm / RME Micstasy Gain 33, PZM : Schoeps BLM 03C Spaced Pair 50cm / RME Micstasy Gain 37.
From time to time on this forum I read stuff that I really don't understand, but at least know what all the words mean individually. But not this time, you got me beaten Dave! :lol:
User avatar
pre65
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 21373
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: North Essex/Suffolk border.

#5 Re: What do instruments actually sound like?

Post by pre65 »

Position I for me.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
User avatar
Ray P
No idea why I do this anymore
Posts: 6294
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Somerset

#6 Re: What do instruments actually sound like?

Post by Ray P »

Yes but, while it's mildly interesting and entertaining does it actually tell us anything new?

Taking this specific scenario of orchestral instruments, if you want to actually know what 'that' instrument sounds like you have to be there and hear it for yourself - 'that' instrument because nominally similar instruments, violins for example, can sound very different depending on many things.

Hopefully 2021 will enable us to experience more live music again.
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
chris661
Shed dweller
Posts: 2556
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:29 am
Location: Sheffield

#7 Re: What do instruments actually sound like?

Post by chris661 »

Ray P wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:22 am Yes but, while it's mildly interesting and entertaining does it actually tell us anything new?
I don't know, Ray. Have you ever tried listening to a solo instrument from all those different positions?


In my experience, sometimes people say things like "it sounds like the musician is in the room", but when you consider the complexity of the radiation pattern of even a single instrument, this clearly becomes impossible.

Even moreso, when you consider that the microphones used to record the thing are likely to be either a single mic, or maybe a spaced pair as we see in this link. The sound will only be captured from one direction, so we're already not-capturing-all-the-information at the recording stage.


DtB, I think that data is for all microphones - the ones in the air are DPA 4006 omni mics*, positioned as a spaced pair, 50cm capsule-to-capsule (AB50), with an RME audio capture device with 33dB of gain. The floor mics are Pressure Zone Microphones, the "Shoeps BLM03C" being the make/model, with the RME device having 37dB of gain. Looks like the Shoeps mics need 4dB more gain.

I also noted that the text didn't change as I clicked between different mics.

Which position did you like?


* To give an idea, those DPA mics are £1500 each.


Cheers, all.

Chris
User avatar
ed
retired
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:01 pm
Location: yorkshire
Contact:

#8 Re: What do instruments actually sound like?

Post by ed »

Ray P wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:22 am Yes but, while it's mildly interesting and entertaining does it actually tell us anything new?

Taking this specific scenario of orchestral instruments, if you want to actually know what 'that' instrument sounds like you have to be there and hear it for yourself - 'that' instrument because nominally similar instruments, violins for example, can sound very different depending on many things.

Hopefully 2021 will enable us to experience more live music again.
+1 Ray
chris661 wrote:Have you ever tried listening to a solo instrument from all those different positions?
yes, and recording them.
I had a conversation some time ago with Kenny(can't find the post at the mo) about methods of recording acoustic guitar...so many ways to skin a cat and so many ways of interpreting. Same with drum kits, which fascinated me for years....it's all so subjective

ars longa vita brevis
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be
User avatar
Ray P
No idea why I do this anymore
Posts: 6294
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Somerset

#9 Re: What do instruments actually sound like?

Post by Ray P »

chris661 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:00 pm I don't know, Ray. Have you ever tried listening to a solo instrument from all those different positions?
Well, not consciously but yes, I would guess pretty much through my general exposure to live music; Judy (my partner) is a musician, she comes from a musical family (for example her brother is an accomplished musician - http://www.musicdevon.com/staff/david-norrish/), I know quite a few musicians and attend(ed!) quite a lot of acoustic concerts in generally small/medium venues. I've yet to hear an audio system that sounds like a 'live' performance, there's always something missing, though that's not to devalue listening to reproduced music, which, when done well, can be just as enjoyable as a concert, just different and, of course, far more convenient and accessible.

Of course, some instruments are more directional than others, the difference in the 'listening' position of the horns illustrates that very well.

Another observation is that the pieces performed in the video aren't actually intended to be solo items but are part of an ensemble performance, such as an orchestral symphony, that was composed to 'blend' the different sounds.
chris661 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:00 pm In my experience, sometimes people say things like "it sounds like the musician is in the room", but when you consider the complexity of the radiation pattern of even a single instrument, this clearly becomes impossible.
I've said that before - always about small scale music, girl and guitar type stuff, but never about, for example, an orchestra - probably related to knowing about scale and dynamics! It's probably all to do with the way our brains work to trick us (happens all the time) but in a very simple sense I think it just means that there is something our brains interpret as tangible about the way the music is being reproduced.
chris661 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:00 pm Which position did you like?
Call me old fashioned but when I go to a concert my preference is generally to sit centrally in front, but not at the front.
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
Post Reply