The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

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jack
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#1096 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by jack »

No, what was your point about our use of weedkiller?

Unless it was a pretty weak analogy. Comparing small companies doing upgrade work on vehicles to an invasive alien species is tenuous at best.
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#1097 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by steve s »

I'm on a few ktm forums, the trend at the moment is to remove the cat, fit more open exhausts and richen the fuel injection, all of which effects emissions and effectively changes the vehicle rating.. (no longer euro 5)
To me that's wrong

Where as raising the handlebars changing the seat or adding carbon parts & stickers etc etc to new bike is the sort of thing that's not affecting the emissions and should be allowed to continue

Hopefully common sense will prevail
But who knows?
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#1098 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by IslandPink »

jack wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:58 am I don't trust any government, regardless of party. Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition are, IMHO, a bunch of ineffectual, lying weasels too.

However, we are governed by consent in the UK. Unpopular laws rarely last long.
God, I'm honestly shocked at this coming from you, Nick.
It's only a short step from this thinking, to suggesting that democracy is a bit of a waste of time - why don't we just let the existing government suggest a few names for the next term, if they are all the same.
Howcome John Major and Ken Clarke aren't going out of their way to criticise David Cameron's or Tony Blair's governments ?
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#1099 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Nick »

jack wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:03 am No, what was your point about our use of weedkiller?

Unless it was a pretty weak analogy. Comparing small companies doing upgrade work on vehicles to an invasive alien species is tenuous at best.
No, my point was on the one hand you were suggesting that we should just follow the rules because they were the rules, while on the other hand feeling that you were justified to break those rules when you saw fit.

My comments about the effect on the industry was in addition to the point, not a part of it.
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#1100 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by jack »

Not sure we broke any rules. We legitimately purchased commercial glyphosate from a licensed agricultural merchant (where we had an account), and used it completely legally on an extremely invasive controlled plant.

Really not sure what your ad hominem beef is here.
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#1101 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by jack »

IslandPink wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:25 pm
jack wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:58 am I don't trust any government, regardless of party. Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition are, IMHO, a bunch of ineffectual, lying weasels too.

However, we are governed by consent in the UK. Unpopular laws rarely last long.
God, I'm honestly shocked at this coming from you, Nick.
It's only a short step from this thinking, to suggesting... (End if the known universe)
Just disillusioned with the whole bunch. I had real hopes that at least we'd have an effective opposition, but that dream was soon crushed.
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#1102 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by ed »

jack wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:03 am No, what was your point about our use of weedkiller?

Unless it was a pretty weak analogy. Comparing small companies doing upgrade work on vehicles to an invasive alien species is tenuous at best.
japanese knotweed, yes..atropa belladonna, definitely not, leave it alone!
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#1103 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by pre65 »

It seems there is no blanket ban in the UK (or EU) regarding glyphosate at the moment, although the EU will review that in 2022.

Some UK local authorities have banned it's use, but I don't think that applies where Jack (Nick) lives.

Of course there may be moral objections due to the (supposed) carcinogenic effects of glyphosate.
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#1104 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by pre65 »

It seems Roundup is more "dangerous" than pure glyphosate because of the added chemicals Bayer (was Monsanto) use, and they may stop selling it in the USA.
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#1105 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Nick »

To quote from the post I was referring to that suggested flexible application of rules:
I believe that as an ordinary member of the public, it may be tricky to get - my in-laws are farmers...
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#1106 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by jack »

Nick wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:33 pm To quote from the post I was referring to that suggested flexible application of rules:
I believe that as an ordinary member of the public, it may be tricky to get - my in-laws are farmers...
It was they that suggested we open our own account. We had a limited company and enough land to qualify. Not that it's anyone else's business.
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#1107 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by pre65 »

jack wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:36 pm
It was they that suggested we open our own account. We had a limited company and enough land to qualify. Not that it's anyone else's business.
By posting details like this on a public forum you make it other peoples business.

That's what a "forum" is for ?
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#1108 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Nick »

jack wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:36 pm
Nick wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:33 pm To quote from the post I was referring to that suggested flexible application of rules:
I believe that as an ordinary member of the public, it may be tricky to get - my in-laws are farmers...
It was they that suggested we open our own account. We had a limited company and enough land to qualify. Not that it's anyone else's business.
Then (using that logic) I would argue that what I do with my motorcycle is also not anyone else's business.
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#1109 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Baggy Trousers »

Nick wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:03 am My point being that it may look like unpopular laws are eventually repealed if in the meantime you can assume they don't apply to you. In this case 1. The majority won't give a toss as long as they can get a new car on a PCP. And 2. Even if the law was repealed by then the small companies making after market parts will have gone so it will make no difference.
Exactly so.

The stated "intentions" of a duplicitous government are worthless - what will matter is what is enshrined in the Statutory Instrument. This may not come out for consultation before being ratified but there are few votes in bikes or those who want to play with cars, (or tractors, road-going mowers etc) so there will be damn-all parliamentary interest and oversight.

One of the problems with the DfT's proposal is that they seem to be adopting a new approach - past legislation always has been performance based, not design based; very sensible as politicians know bugger-all about automotive design (or much else!). This new thinking changes that and because of this, is thoroughly dangerous. At the moment, if you don't like your peashooters, you can change them for some Dunstalls providing that the noise performance does not exceed Road Traffic or Construction and Use regulations. This is sensible - I hate those goddam doo-rag Harley prats with their loud pipes y'all! - but the suggested legislation will make bad law. Contrary to the notion that bad laws quickly are repealed - No, they are not, unless some embarrassment is suffered as with the recent Owen Paterson fiasco.

It is important therefore, that everyone responds to the "consultative" paper - take a moment to block or at least modify this nonsense which will make our biking lives needlessly restrictive and restricted. It's as stupid as prohibiting replacement of your KT66s with 6550s (although both are likely to be outlawed by the global warming zealots!) Please go to the govt website for "Vehicle Tampering" and provide your fourpence worth - it even has a LBGTQ+++ section, so there's something for everybody! And soon - usually there are 12 weeks allowed for these so-called consultations; in this case the time has been reduced to 8 weeks so there will be fewer objections and the clowns can get the thing through more quietly. The clock is ticking. Lets prove them wrong! :bounce:
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#1110 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by jack »

Nick wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:57 pm
jack wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:36 pm
Nick wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:33 pm To quote from the post I was referring to that suggested flexible application of rules:

It was they that suggested we open our own account. We had a limited company and enough land to qualify. Not that it's anyone else's business.
Then (using that logic) I would argue that what I do with my motorcycle is also not anyone else's business.
Again, you're being deliberately obtuse. Despite your petty insinuation, we completely complied with all extent rules and regulations. You know full well this is about potential risk to other road users, not whether you want put tassels on the handlebars of your chopper.

The issue here, I believe, is that the proposed rule changes are to prevent folk messing with autonomous vehicles which are rather more complex than our current motorbikes and old landrovers etc. Although I've not been involved in the automotive industry, it's easy to appreciate how blindly messing with these intensely complex and finely balanced systems can be dangerous. It's not like writing a few 100 lines of C for an Arduino... there's no source code or supported API for this stuff.

To use another another (medical) analogy, no individual in their right mind would modify software in a critical piece of equipment on which their life depended, e.g. a pacemaker.

In the case of autonomous vehicles, it's not just your life, it's those in the the vehicle with you as well as other vehicles around you. It's infinitely more subtle and complex and nothing to do with individual"rights" and all about collective responsibility.

The bottom line is that the wider community needs to respond to the public consultation and only when the draft regulations are available will we know what's actually being proposed.
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