The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

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Nick
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#1111 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Nick »

there's no source code or supported API for this stuff.
But maybe there should be exactly that. VAG have already shown us that if something in software can be altered to their benefit it will be.
To use another another (medical) analogy, no individual in their right mind would modify software in a critical piece of equipment on which their life depended, e.g. a pacemaker.
Again, I would feel safer if I could see the software so I (or a trusted third party) could verify that it was doing what it was expected and if the company that built it went to the wall I wasn't left with a time bomb inside my chest.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... are-update
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#1112 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by jack »

Old story about pacemakers, which was rapidly addressed. Basically, when these systems were designed, security was not such a big issue.

Either you are being deliberately obtuse and argumentative or simply don't understand safety critical and intrinsically safe systems. The amount of testing and verification required, plus the testing harnesses and requirements themselves, are way beyond what even most companies can provide.

It's totally different to bolting a new set of springs on your bike. Attempting to conflate rationales for allowing modifications to technologies that are miles apart in sophistication and risk is, IMHO, extremely poor judgement. Or, maybe, just taking the piss. Or plain ignorance and/or stupidity.

I don't trust any government of whatever political leaning. We'll just have to see what eventually comes out.
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#1113 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

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Either you are being deliberately obtuse and argumentative or simply don't understand safety critical and intrinsically safe systems. The amount of testing and verification required, plus the testing harnesses and requirements themselves, are way beyond what even most companies can provide.
Boeing MAX 737

Sounds to me like an argument that we are not ready to be doing such stuff then, Maybe we should wait until after the standards are in place to transparently verify against before releasing them if we can only take the makers word for it that they are tested.
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#1114 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Paul Barker »

whats this got to do with motorcycling? Are they fly by computer too? Id be twitchy if I were a pilot in todays technology. Is it the F14s we now have? Fly beautifully when the computer managers to boot up. Otherwase Nada! Pilot in cockpit sat there a sitting duck. Wouldnt have worked in the Battle of Britain..

Maybe the software writen by Huyawawee (dont ask me to spell it). If Hitler were alive today he’d help us get our software right! Not that Im saying he isnt alive. Who knows? You can go to youtube now and chose youre own blend of pills to miraculously cure anything you suffer from, and blend youre personal choice of conspiracies. For every phd who is wholeheartedly down the line and equal amount of Vegan’s.
Last edited by Paul Barker on Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#1115 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by ed »

I think the water is being muddied here with all the talk about tampering with critical systems(IT reference).
There's a whole world of difference between tampering in regard to safety issues in critical IT systems and that with mechanical accessories on vehicles.

I'm with baggo on this.

It seems very similar to the recent legislation on drones whereby all the historic model flyers were tipped into a bag with all the nerdowell anti social(and illegal) drone flyers.
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#1116 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by jack »

As you well know, the Boeing issue was a systematic failure - many many processes failed.

If there is a positive from that, it's that the issues regarding changing flight control systems are now better understood and processes will be improved.

Air travel along with rail, in terms of fatalities/km, are still the safest mode of transport by far. https://www.statista.com/statistics/300 ... d-kingdom/ and many other places.

What does being "ready" mean? The human race has always pushed boundaries and taken risks. The Boeing issue is more about greed and corruption, but people have always died in planes, trains and automobiles, plus died in the pursuit of pretty much every other goal. It happens and is part of moving forward. Bizarrely, air travel is still safe on the above metric - it's just that when a plane crashes, it tends to involve a fair few people, but in terms of the millions who fly every day, it's still a small number.

The main technical issue as I see it with these super complex systems is that testing and verification hasn't kept up with design and implementation.

And this having nothing to do with motorcycles and old cars is exactly my point. It seems from the RFC that this is about hi tech autonomous vehicles, not the likes of what we do.

Respond to the RFC accordingly and see what the draft legislation actually says.
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#1117 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

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Not that big a difference Ed. What if I want to fit a third party ECU or disable air bags?
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#1118 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Paul Barker »

well it seems off topic is popular, 22 guests lurking.

Ill get my hat and coat. Call me when a motorcycling thread appears please?
Last edited by Paul Barker on Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#1119 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

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It's on topic just read back a bit.
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#1120 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

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I prefer taking pot shots. Since Im so far out of my depth. Last computer progam I wrote was in Fortran, input on punch cards and printed out on ticker tape. I think it was 1976. Ill tell you this much my university education was so wrong in hindsight. But I enjoyed going round the country lanes in those days on my Jawa 350, and stopping every 100 miles to clean the plugs. See how easy it is to get back on topic?
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#1121 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by ed »

Nick wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:11 am Not that big a difference Ed. What if I want to fit a third party ECU or disable air bags?
I think the devil is in the detail. I still can't get my head around putting tampering with a critical IT system and changing the handlebar grips in the same legislation. To my knowledge most cars are now fly-by-wire...tampering with the ECU should not be in the same legislation as changing the light bulbs, surely.
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#1122 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Nick »

I never said tamper I said change as in replace with another. But for that matter what about a remap?
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#1123 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

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Nick wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:24 am what about a remap?
well worth it? My audi A4 turned from a Vauxhaul Viva into an RS Cosworth in about half an hour.
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#1124 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

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steve s wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:08 am I'm on a few ktm forums, the trend at the moment is to remove the cat, fit more open exhausts and richen the fuel injection, all of which effects emissions and effectively changes the vehicle rating.. (no longer euro 5)
To me that's wrong
I would agree, but it ought to be picked up by an MOT, and if not, maybe that's what needs tightening up ?
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#1125 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by pre65 »

Paul Barker wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:26 pm
Nick wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:24 am what about a remap?
well worth it? My audi A4 turned from a Vauxhaul Viva into an RS Cosworth in about half an hour.
Did you inform your insurance company Paul ?

As regards remaps I couldn't possibly comment. :wink:
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