The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

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Ray P
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#3181 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by Ray P »

I made my living as a cartographer/remote sensing analyst for a long time Mark and I'm a member of the British Cartographic Society through my workplace. The OS maps are great and, as you say, contain lots of information that you clearly find useful but they're not optimal for this use case, there's just too much information and use of colour - they're static, 'designed for paper' maps that you can't filter. By contrast, Strava and the like utilise OpenStreetMap, which is a modern interactive map tool - you can have an overview without too much detail, some roads, places and a generalised indication of elevation with 'smears' of green;

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but as you zoom in more detail automatically gets 'turned on' and you get a much more refined view (that is more appropriate to the speed you're moving through the terrain);

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and that's just the standard map view, if you switch to the cyclingOSM layer you get more detail appropriate to that mode of transport, including contouring.

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I can use these functions both on the move and to review a ride after finishing and, of course, when 'on the move' you will be automatically recentred in the correct part of the map and you can orient to your heading.

To reinforce the point about maps needing to be optimised to a use case, imaging trying to fly a fast jet down the valleys using that OS map strapped to your thigh.

Anyway, I know which I prefer to use but each to their own.
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#3182 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by IslandPink »

Ray P wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:18 pm To reinforce the point about maps needing to be optimised to a use case, imaging trying to fly a fast jet down the valleys using that OS map strapped to your thigh.
Anyway, I know which I prefer to use but each to their own.
Yes, exactly.
I'm a cyclist, not a fighter pilot.
Take the top map you supplied.
The region to the South of Denbigh, and to the left of the main road, is viciously corrugated, with 1-in-5's and 1-in-7's all over the place, with deep valleys and hills trending towards 1500ft on the left of the square.
To the right of the main road, it's valley roads with gentle gradients, and nothing above about 200ft.
I can't tell that from your map, and my legs have just told me that they deserve more respect than that map can deliver.
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Ray P
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#3183 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by Ray P »

IslandPink wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:40 pm I'm a cyclist, not a fighter pilot.
Take the top map you supplied.
The region to the South of Denbigh, and to the left of the main road, is viciously corrugated, with 1-in-5's and 1-in-7's all over the place, with deep valleys and hills trending towards 1500ft on the left of the square.
To the right of the main road, it's valley roads with gentle gradients, and nothing above about 200ft.
I can't tell that from your map, and my legs have just told me that they deserve more respect than that map can deliver.
Of course you're not a fighter pilot Mark, but my point is that just as a fighter pilot would use a map (actually an air chart) optimised to their use case so can cyclists have better than an old-skool OS map should they choose.

However, there are two use cases being conflated here. My original point was that it is really difficult to see your ride routes on the OS map you're using - for illustrating where you've been there is simply too much detail for it to be easily observed. I offered the first map example above because, being so uncluttered, it is excellent for showing routes.

The second use case is for ride planning/situational awareness. If we compare apples with apples and pan the second map extents to the area to the South of Denbigh and to the left (West) of the main road there is a lot of information clearly presented about the terrain;

Image

That said, if I plan a route I generally do so in Ride with GPS (because the routing tool is really easy to use) at an overview level of zoom and, if I'm aware there is significant elevation, I switch to the terrain view so I get a clear idea of where the challenges will be and, of course, you also get a ride profile that will tell you gradients, ramps, length of clim etc. Here's the Ride with GPS for the same locality as the first map I inked to;

Image

I know which presentation gives me the clearest picture of what a terrain is like.

Another prspective is that having planned a route in an unfamiliar location I can upload it and get turn by turn route directions, freeing me to concentrate on riding safely and enjoy the route instead of worrying about navigation.

Anyway, if you're happy with your OS map that's fine and I have no particular axe to grind beyond my original point about difficulty viewing your routes.
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#3184 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by Ray P »

After a bowl of porridge for lunch I headed out for a longer than normal ride after lunch today, up onto the Quantock Hills then out onto the Somerset Levels. There was a pretty blustery westerly so a bit of grind on the final leg back to Taunton.
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#3185 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by IslandPink »

That first map on post 3183 there is half-decent actually.
Nearly as good as an OS map !
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#3186 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

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That looks like a workout, that loop.
You were out there nearly as long as me !... but I think you did a bit more distance...
I'm hoping to get out again Thursday, since I booked a day off to make a long weekend.
Must change that front tire first though, one evening. I have a folding Michelin I never used, so it will be back to 22mm for a while.
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#3187 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

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IslandPink wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:30 pm That looks like a workout, that loop.
Yep, in old money the route is just over 40miles and I averaged 15.6mph - You can see from the average HR that I wasn't pushing hard, just a steady ride in the September sun (and wind).

I hope the weather holds for you to enjoy a ride on Thursday Mark. I've got Friday off but I won't overdo things as we have an office club ride on Sunday - IIRC the options are 50miles/4000ft or 100miles/8000ft - I'll probably just do the morning half as, given her poor health, it wouldn't be fair to leave Judy on her own all day.
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#3188 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by Ray P »

With all the miles I've been riding I've started checking the drive trains on the various bikes more frequently, the chainrings and cassettes seem OK but I've just replaced the chain on my Viner road bike as the gauge told me it had stretched to the point of being out of manufacturer tolerance.

Fortunately, modern bike chains are very easy to change with the advent of the quick link and I only needed the chain tool to take a few links off the new one. I also tweaked the shifter cable because it had stretched a smidgen so I'm just going to ride around the block to make sure the indexing/shifting is OK as I have a long ride planned for tomorrow.
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#3189 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

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So my birthday treat (I was 64 yesterday) was to join some work colleagues on a long overdue group ride. A few brave souls will be riding a 120mile round trip taking in Watchet (Bristol Channel coast) and Sidmouth (English Channel coast) but I just rode the first half from Taunton to Watchet and back via the lumpy West Somerset countryside - my hardest ride of the year but chuffed I can do it at my age.
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#3190 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by jack »

Excellent Ray! Happy birthday!

#1 son just finishing the Grand Fondo of the Dragon Ride - he has about 30km and one big climb to go ATM...

Total is 211km and 3040mtr climbing. Apparently he's "feeling good"!
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#3191 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by IslandPink »

Good effort Ray, looks nice, good distance and some scenery.

My own cycling plans came unstuck this week with a nightmare of mother trouble featuring two ambulance calls, the second of which ran for 11 hours overnight Fri/Sat. Thankfully she was both taken into A&E and then onto a ward where we can try to get some sort of plan not involving her being dumped back at the house. I feel like I've lost another couple of years off my life :roll:
Oh, and my attempt to put another tyre on the front wheel on Thursday failed - it was an old folding Michelin that I found in the cupboard, they are a pig to get on properly , and I put a tear in the inner tube while trying to get the last 6 inches of the tyre on the rim.
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#3192 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by Paul Barker »

I’m getting snags with everything I could do manually a year ago at work and in amp building. But now take two or more re-runs before it’s conquered, until next tough challenge.
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#3193 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by Dave the bass »

Awethumne riding Ray, happy burpday too.

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#3194 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by IslandPink »

I laid the blame fairly and squarely on the tyre :)
Paul Barker wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:01 pm I’m getting snags with everything I could do manually a year ago at work and in amp building. But now take two or more re-runs before it’s conquered, until next tough challenge.
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#3195 Re: The Audio-Talk Cycling thread.

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Chapeau! Take him to the airlock.....

counterpoints the surrealism if the underlying metaphor...
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
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