Fascist State?

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ed
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#76 Re: Fascist State?

Post by ed »

ergot poisoning?
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#77 Re: Fascist State?

Post by Ant »

Perhaps it is because capitalism and communism are fundamentally opposite?
That Capitalism works under the assumption that you as an individual are what is important, and that you as an individual are in control of what you end up with. Work hard/play the system and you can have whatever you want, and it is all yours and nobody elses.
That communism works under the assumption that the collective whole is whats important, and that all you do goes into the whole. That the individual is not the important part, it is the contribution that you make to the whole that is important.
What you do us directed, and what is yours is not exactly yours.

Being individual is an asset in a capitalist society because you control your 'fate', but in a communist society, whoever is directing your efforts controls your fate; i.e the politburo or whatever state organ makes the decisions. I.e from a capitalist point of view you are not 'free'

Hence the old term for the west as being the 'free world'

Perhaps it is the fact that americans, or any members of any capitalist society have the view that they and theirs are the important ones, and that communism says they are not, and that the whole is what is important is the crux of the hatred. The idea that nobody has the right to control you, what is yours is yours, and nobody has the right to take what is yours. That you are not just a cog in a machine.

Its interesting that there is a patriotic basis in both ideals, everything is for mother russia, do it for uncle sam.

Or that could all be bollocks, and everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others in both societies
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#78 Re: Fascist State?

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Just point out that your definition of capitalism is off the mark, it has no interest in your or your freedom (that’s just spin added by the PR people).

"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state."

Compared to communism:

"a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs."

At least communism mentions people.
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#79 Re: Fascist State?

Post by Ant »

Fair point, i suppose its down to how the respective governments put the ideal on the table to the people.
I wonder if anyone these days even considers these ideals, other than as us vs them as its been so long since the bolshevik revolution (1917? 18?I should have researched)
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andrew Ivimey
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#80 Re: Fascist State?

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Nobody expects..... that the Soanish Inquisition still sort of exists. Oh they give it a different name now but the Catholic Church still let's you grass up your Jewish or Protestant neighbours if that sort of thing does it for you.

Imho with 'witches' it might be important to ask who, after the witch is drowned so innocent, or burned but definitely dead, gets the property previously owned by the hapless poor woman.

Also, within a religious community, which brother loses his authority and standing in the male hierarchy of the organisation if the 'sister'/wife is proved to be a witch?

So, property, male status (women have no status; they are baggage or chatels, or unfortunately last in family line to owning the land down by the river etc etc, male proof of piety and goodness, lust, sadism, prurience and scapegoating but mainly its power.

That's a start.

Don't get me started on Mathew Hopkins.
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#81 Re: Fascist State?

Post by Ali Tait »

As Nick said, follow the money.
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andrew Ivimey
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#82 Re: Fascist State?

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Is anything that simple!?

Anyway I've been lissnin' to a lot of Woody Guthrie of late and thinking about USA particularly as the future looks very bleak with the plans the Republicans are unleashing - very bleak indeed. They don't need Trump.

As I was cooking a curry the radio was on. I can't recommend too highly the series on radio 4 I've just heard.
The New Deal - A story for our times.

It pulls so much together so succinctly, though it ain't simple. Organised labour the trades unions has always been anathema to many Americans but there was a sideways attempt to allow such democratic movements but the people had to fight tooth and nail not only against thr bosses and their scum but the National Guard too. Maynard Keynes and The New Deal were so important to loosing some of the chains.

Anyway, for those interested, brilliant and two episodes still to go, and Sounds App will give me last week's episode.
Trouble is it looks like the US is becoming much more like a fascist state in our times. What then of Freedom and the individual?
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
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Ray P
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#83 Re: Fascist State?

Post by Ray P »

andrew Ivimey wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:38 pm Trouble is it looks like the US is becoming much more like a fascist state in our times. What then of Freedom and the individual?
Thanks for pointing up the 'New Deal' Andrew, I'll check it out and hopefully become a little more educated on some of this stuff.

As for the situation in the US moving to the right, typical of these scenarios, after all, it's not as if it hasn't happened before, is the need for somone to 'blame';

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57616323

and as you say, the populace you mobilise to gain power then rapidly become expendable.

The Trump situation baffles me in that it is seemingly obvious that he couldn't give tuppence for his 'supporters' and yet they follow him in their droves?
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#84 Re: Fascist State?

Post by Ali Tait »

Been said before, but seemingly a lot of people like to be told what to do and think. Why is this?
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#85 Re: Fascist State?

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Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
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#86 Re: Fascist State?

Post by Dave the bass »

Awethumne 8)
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#87 Re: Fascist State?

Post by IslandPink »

That was like a call signal for you, wasn't it ?
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#88 Re: Fascist State?

Post by Dave the bass »

Yups! The propeller on top of my pointy hat was twirling, I knew there was awethumness being linked to somewhere.
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#89 Re: Fascist State?

Post by Paul Barker »

Ali Tait wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:35 am Been said before, but seemingly a lot of people like to be told what to do and think. Why is this?
In times of stress when a storm is raging in youre life, working as a slave has some benefits. you get youre needs met with knobs on if you have a desirable skill, and your head stays on straight while youre mindlessly following the dictates of the control system of youre slave driver. the intently intricate checks and monitors in all jobs of the type Im in, relieve you of having to plan youre day. every infinitesimal small measure of time is rounded up by the dictatorship system youre employed within, for their ends. you hve no time of youre own, apart from one half hour break outside youre job that comes down as youre break ends.

But, one advantage, you have nothing to think about.
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#90 Re: Fascist State?

Post by IslandPink »

This is sickening, no wonder we're in so much trouble ( this is a posting from today btw )
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"Once you find out ... the Circumstances ; then you can go out"
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