Fascist State?
- pre65
- Amstrad Tower of Power
- Posts: 21399
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: North Essex/Suffolk border.
#61 Re: Fascist State?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
- andrew Ivimey
- Social Sevices have been notified
- Posts: 8318
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
- Location: Bedford
#62 Re: Fascist State?
Erm...redlasso, really, I looked them up.
But what do you think Phil? I can't find your first ammendment. America, hatred of communism, what do YOU think?
You would think post 2nd WW, Ray, but America declared war on the Soviet Union the moment the Czar was deposed. The British and the French did too. They sent men, dollars and munitions to fight Trotsky's red army in the civil war that followed the revolution. A state of war existed right up to the 2ndWW. Then no one trusted Stalin and it was a race to Berlin... which the Soviets won. The bombs on Japan were an American warning to the SU to back off in the Pacific. Then China happened, etc etc
Domino theory!!!
Redlasso - howls of derisive laughter though I think their mission was to thwart Fox Inc. Not all bad. Am I wrong?
But what do you think Phil? I can't find your first ammendment. America, hatred of communism, what do YOU think?
You would think post 2nd WW, Ray, but America declared war on the Soviet Union the moment the Czar was deposed. The British and the French did too. They sent men, dollars and munitions to fight Trotsky's red army in the civil war that followed the revolution. A state of war existed right up to the 2ndWW. Then no one trusted Stalin and it was a race to Berlin... which the Soviets won. The bombs on Japan were an American warning to the SU to back off in the Pacific. Then China happened, etc etc
Domino theory!!!
Redlasso - howls of derisive laughter though I think their mission was to thwart Fox Inc. Not all bad. Am I wrong?
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
- IslandPink
- Amstrad Tower of Power
- Posts: 10041
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 7:01 pm
- Location: Denbigh, N.Wales
#63 Re: Fascist State?
That is a good question, and I don't really know the answer ( yet ) . i know that there strong reactions against attempts to Unionise, in the 1930's, but whether that was seen as a communist threat at that stage, i don't know - probably just anti-capitalist. It certainly got going after WW2 with the nuclear arms race.Ray P wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:25 pm Maybe a pertinent question would be 'when did it start'? I get the impression that it started after WW2 so perhaps it started as a military spending justification - the commies will destroy the american dream - that got out of hand? That's pure conjecture though.
I think there was always going to be a stronger reaction to communism in America, owing to there being a strong streak of libertarianism- which of course D.T. tapped into.
Now I see Andrew has posted more. I must look into this.
"Once you find out ... the Circumstances ; then you can go out"
- pre65
- Amstrad Tower of Power
- Posts: 21399
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: North Essex/Suffolk border.
#64 Re: Fascist State?
I don't really have an opinion. My knowledge on the subject is sadly lacking.andrew Ivimey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:13 pm
But what do you think Phil? I can't find your first ammendment. America, hatred of communism, what do YOU think?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
#65 Re: Fascist State?
I would guess the simple answer is follow the money. Who would gain most from full blown free market capitalism, and who would benefit from convincing the population that workers rights and equal sharing of wealth would be against their (the workers) interest? The fact that that would also lean into the American mythos of individualism and might makes right, I suspect made it simpler to convince the majority of the population.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
- andrew Ivimey
- Social Sevices have been notified
- Posts: 8318
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
- Location: Bedford
#66 Re: Fascist State?
So why not stick to why Des O'connor is so worthwhile....
Much there is to be learned from history and in some parts my knowledge is sketchy even though I read lots, travelled lots, spoken with people from San Francisco to Irkutsk about communism and apart from Nick's posting and fundamental greed of capitalism and power I don't get much further.
As for the founding, the Boston tea party... America seriously feared a rapine take over from the East India Company having seen what we did to India, and development of America, their ability to slaughter each other in the civil war, to accept immigration from all over Europe by the poor,weak disposed,religious intolerance, they even burned witches too just like back in Europe.... we gave up slavery first hmmmmm.
Oh look, seriously I could go on ( and on) . It does puzzle me, it has done for a long time. America and Britain has so much that is good and so much that stinks. Democracy can only ever be partial unless we are prepared to stand up and do something.
Herbert Marcuse, the geeky commie guy in Hail Caesar was real and his work invaluable in understanding how capitalism can resolve historical contradictions. The joke is still on us.
Repressive desublimation - what a phrase. Back in the 1950s you could even buy 'luxury bomb proof shelters'. As if there could be luxury after nuclear holocaust.
Mein Fuhrer I can walk. ( quick reference to fascism) How did Strangelove end?
Much there is to be learned from history and in some parts my knowledge is sketchy even though I read lots, travelled lots, spoken with people from San Francisco to Irkutsk about communism and apart from Nick's posting and fundamental greed of capitalism and power I don't get much further.
As for the founding, the Boston tea party... America seriously feared a rapine take over from the East India Company having seen what we did to India, and development of America, their ability to slaughter each other in the civil war, to accept immigration from all over Europe by the poor,weak disposed,religious intolerance, they even burned witches too just like back in Europe.... we gave up slavery first hmmmmm.
Oh look, seriously I could go on ( and on) . It does puzzle me, it has done for a long time. America and Britain has so much that is good and so much that stinks. Democracy can only ever be partial unless we are prepared to stand up and do something.
Herbert Marcuse, the geeky commie guy in Hail Caesar was real and his work invaluable in understanding how capitalism can resolve historical contradictions. The joke is still on us.
Repressive desublimation - what a phrase. Back in the 1950s you could even buy 'luxury bomb proof shelters'. As if there could be luxury after nuclear holocaust.
Mein Fuhrer I can walk. ( quick reference to fascism) How did Strangelove end?
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
- pre65
- Amstrad Tower of Power
- Posts: 21399
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: North Essex/Suffolk border.
#67 Re: Fascist State?
[quote="andrew Ivimey" post_id=187912 time=1624823812 user_id=22
So why not stick to why Des O'connor is so worthwhile....
[/quote]
I'm sure, being the educated man you are Andrew, you could find many ways to insult me .
As Richard Dunn said (MANY TIMES) play the topic not the man.(in respect of Ad Hominem.)
So why not stick to why Des O'connor is so worthwhile....
[/quote]
I'm sure, being the educated man you are Andrew, you could find many ways to insult me .
As Richard Dunn said (MANY TIMES) play the topic not the man.(in respect of Ad Hominem.)
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
- andrew Ivimey
- Social Sevices have been notified
- Posts: 8318
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
- Location: Bedford
#68 Re: Fascist State?
Yeah but if you talk bollocks you can expect a little exasperation from your audience.
Ad hominid? Yes. If you own it, you deserve it.
Ad hominid? Yes. If you own it, you deserve it.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
- andrew Ivimey
- Social Sevices have been notified
- Posts: 8318
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
- Location: Bedford
#69 Re: Fascist State?
Oops I tried to correct hominid to hominem, oh well.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
- andrew Ivimey
- Social Sevices have been notified
- Posts: 8318
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
- Location: Bedford
#70 Re: Fascist State?
Education yes that was there in the mix too. I am educated.
I have taken it on to learn more and be critical. Only in a fascist state or mind is education, learning and knowledge denigrated.
I have taken it on to learn more and be critical. Only in a fascist state or mind is education, learning and knowledge denigrated.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
- pre65
- Amstrad Tower of Power
- Posts: 21399
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 pm
- Location: North Essex/Suffolk border.
#71 Re: Fascist State?
Another one off my Christmas card list.andrew Ivimey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:32 pm
Yeah but if you talk bollocks you can expect a little exasperation from your audience.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
- andrew Ivimey
- Social Sevices have been notified
- Posts: 8318
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
- Location: Bedford
#72 Re: Fascist State?
Breathes a sigh of relief but you did that years ago...
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
- IslandPink
- Amstrad Tower of Power
- Posts: 10041
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 7:01 pm
- Location: Denbigh, N.Wales
#73 Re: Fascist State?
It ended with Slim Pickings for everyone, as I recall.
"Once you find out ... the Circumstances ; then you can go out"
- andrew Ivimey
- Social Sevices have been notified
- Posts: 8318
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
- Location: Bedford
#74 Re: Fascist State?
Slim pickings indeed but then they invented a
' deep mine shaft race/ gap.' Genius! I can't remember the exact wording but even in what was to be total obliteration, MAD, the ruling males and their 9:1 ratio of beautiful young women in order to breed for when the radioactivity had died down and they could recommence war/normality back on the surface, surely, and I know none of you are called Shirley, has to be the end of all endings - luxury bomb proof shelters was a possible reality.
' deep mine shaft race/ gap.' Genius! I can't remember the exact wording but even in what was to be total obliteration, MAD, the ruling males and their 9:1 ratio of beautiful young women in order to breed for when the radioactivity had died down and they could recommence war/normality back on the surface, surely, and I know none of you are called Shirley, has to be the end of all endings - luxury bomb proof shelters was a possible reality.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
#75 Re: Fascist State?
Not that I would pretend to any serious learnings on the subject, but what has struck me in the past is a seeming correlation to this hysteria ( for want of a better word) of the Salem witch trials and others of its ilk from another century. Mass hysteria of some kind?
No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition..
No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition..