Peter Green.

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Dave the bass
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#16 Re: Peter Green.

Post by Dave the bass »

This is good rapport, its like Owston without the beer and chips!

Re- Peter Green and risk/out of controlness.

Yep, I like that "bluddy heck, where are we going with this/ erks, how are we going to get out of this" quality in some musics but (IMO) Peter Green didn't have that, he totally knew where he was going/doing. There's a really good interview somewhere with Peter Bardens where Peter Green crops up as he played in a band with him sometime, he also lived upstairs from Bardens at the time and in the interview he states how PG would play the same riff over and over and over again until it was nailed and covered with PG specialness. PB stated his musician mates reckoned "that fella (PG) upstairs is crap, all he does is play the same riffs day in day out" , PB knew what PG was trying to do and knew he had a special talent.

Prince took risks in that solo (IMO) but.., like any musician he had a little safety deposit box of riffs he could dip into and knew when to crack one off and follow up with what he knew would work and floor the audience, so, some phrases are stock and others are freshly brewed which is what makes that particular solo so intense. Thats an awesome skill, wish I had it.

FWIW, personally I hear more freedom of expression(s) in Prince soloing over Purple Rain than I do in Dave Gilmour soloing over Comfortably Numb. Both are enjoyable, but Prince floors (sorry wrong tense, floored *sniff*) me whereas DG didn't, I've seen both do it live a few times.

IMO, PG wasn't like that and wasn't that musch of a (musical) risk taker, though he was closer to Prince than DG (IMO).

However, Carlos Santana in the early days of Santana, absolutely was a 'risker' along with Hendrix and others. True Risk takers?...Jaco P, Ornette Coleman, John Coltrane, Miles, Captain Beefheart, John Martyn and Danny Thompson working together circa 1973.
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#17 Re: Peter Green.

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Nicely put Dave.

All musicians have a tool box in reserve or for when the moment is right. Purple Rain is extraordinary - such erm unplayable chords I find, but such a sound. I saw Prince at empire pool, had to be dragged and found him utterly extraordinary, captivating full of all sorts of wonderful musical energy. I only like Purple Rain and the album Sign of the Times out of an enormous catalogue - a real tortured soul too. Cynical NO! I duff my cap - full respect!

I like Peter Green - that's quite different.
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#18 Re: Peter Green.

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Dave the bass wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:49 pm However, Carlos Santana in the early days of Santana, absolutely was a 'risker' along with Hendrix and others. True Risk takers?...Jaco P, Ornette Coleman, John Coltrane, Miles, Captain Beefheart, John Martyn and Danny Thompson working together circa 1973.
Oh, but no Gerry Garcia, and no Jeff Beck - let's not forget 'Shapes of Things' and 'Definitely Maybe' .
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#19 Re: Peter Green.

Post by Dave the bass »

Its wasn't meant to be (and isn't) a definitive list, just examples.
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#20 Re: Peter Green.

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IMO, PG wasn't like that and wasn't that musch of a (musical) risk taker, though he was closer to Prince than DG (IMO).
I agree, confusingly I said what I said about risk taking players because it seemed a thing worth saying, not particularly suggesting that PG was one of them. Albatross almost defines not talking risks.
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#21 Re: Peter Green.

Post by Nick »

Not wanting to turn this into a go at Prince, But just tried the first other video of that song and comparing the solos I would ave there is a fair bit of duplication and not much risk taking.

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#22 Re: Peter Green.

Post by IslandPink »

If you want a collection of some of the great early Peter Green work, then 'The Pious Bird of Good Omen' is cracking. The LP is one of those that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.
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#23 Re: Peter Green.

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So much to talk about. Taking risks...
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#24 Re: Peter Green.

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Wonderful though "Man Of The world" is its beautifully scripted and played. 0 risks. The quote about PG spending hours playing the same thing, I can fully understand that, practice is for that, getting things right, and the difference between playing almost the right thing and being right. in that type of playing where its all exposed is huge and doesn't happen by accident. All the greats practiced endlessly, The difference between Robert Johnson before he disappeared for a year and when he came back wasn't a deal with the devil, it was a year of practice.

Playing a blues solo, is very much a conversation in the call and response stricture. To have a conversation, you don't make up words on the spot, you learn the words and then the talent (or not) is how you put them together in sentences. What you practice is the words.
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#25 Re: Peter Green.

Post by IslandPink »

I don't think it's '0 risks' when you listen to the lyrics. That's not stuff you normally put in a song.
I was going to comment that Peter Green is a superb singer, not just an ace guitarist. Then there's the songwriting.
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#26 Re: Peter Green.

Post by Nick »

That link Dave posted of Mike Bloonfield is a good example of what I mean, its playing without much of a safety net.
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#27 Re: Peter Green.

Post by The Stratmangler »

Nick wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:41 am That link Dave posted of Mike Bloonfield is a good example of what I mean, its playing without much of a safety net.
I don't think there was a lack of safety net.
The Paul Butterfield Blues Band had a really gruelling tour schedule, and all the musicians in the band knew exactly what they were doing.
They were match fit, and that in itself is the best safety net you could have.

The only thing that couldn't be guaranteed was the way the guitar and very loud amplifier interacted from gig to gig.

(edit) Looking at the comments section the video appears to be The Electric Flag at the Monterey Pop Festival.
My points still stand. They're a well rehearsed and match fit outfit.

Last edited by The Stratmangler on Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#28 Re: Peter Green.

Post by The Stratmangler »

I saw Peter Green Splinter Group in 2003, at Middleton Civic Hall.
Not exactly a high key event.
Peter himself came across as a fragile soul, and while his playing was nowhere near as dextrous as his young self in Fleetwood Mac, he still had the ability to speak volumes with his playing and singing, and tug at the heart strings.

It's rare that someone has that ability, and Peter had it in spades.
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#29 Re: Peter Green.

Post by andrew Ivimey »

I've liked Michael Bloomfield since The Rock Machine Turns you On. And straight after, in the same Woolworths gigantic record sale bought Supersession also starring Steve Stills and and- fabulous and only recently bought a delicious 6 cd boxed set of Paul Butterfield's Blues Band. Michael Bloomfield has a lot of BB King, with a magic of his own. Jimmy Page has a lot of Michael Bloomfield in him with er .... etc etc al imho.

By coincidence I was lissnin' to young Mr Kossoff yesterday and I got irritated - the album sounded self indulgent and going nowhere. PG is best remembered at his best in Fleetwood Mac, beautiful stuff.

Live sets are, and should be, well scripted That's what the all the sweat and practice is for. Prince was, I'm told extremely disciplined but Uncle Frank was the worst.
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#30 Re: Peter Green.

Post by IslandPink »

This track haunts me. What was it BB King said ?
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