Lii Audio Speakers

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steve s
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#61 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by steve s »

I don't have a clue what is the best port position Ray, I remember reading somewhere that the best port position was close to the driver, but you don't see many cabs built like that
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chris661
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#62 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by chris661 »

steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:02 pm
chris661 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:26 pm
steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:57 pm
I'm taking about traditional full range driver types, not some of the modern crap which are flat in response and constipated in sound..
( just my view of course..)

Cheers..
Hoping to change your view on that at the next Owston :wink:

Chris
I can't imagine you bringing what I had in mind Chris.. but I don't mind having my view changed
It's just that I'm planning on bringing something modern drivers and a flat response - that's all.
They're not particularly efficient, so I'm hoping the big Crown amp will nudge them along.

Chris
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Ray P
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#63 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Ray P »

I was planning to start getting the garden up together today but, believe it or not, it rained again! So, I've invested a couple of hours on the bass reflex box for the Lii units with my CAD software. I've got a nice ellipse shape and, allowing for internal bracing structure the volume comes out at about 350 litres - that's big, around 1200mm tall, 600mm wide and 675mm deep! I've got the port halfway down the front baffle, so close to the drive unit as that seems to be the suggested approach I've found online. Happy to receive any advice/observations.
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
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izzy wizzy
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#64 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by izzy wizzy »

As far as resonant modes go in the enclosure, Scott meantioned the top and bottom being parallel will still be affected. Would making those surfaces very rough, with say mouldings in a somewhat random mountainous profile, peaks of say 30mm, break up those modes?
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Ray P
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#65 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Ray P »

I'm hatching a plan along those lines for the top and bottom surfaces.

Also wondering about locating the port so that it 'fires' out of the bottom?
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#66 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by IslandPink »

I'm not sure 30mm is enough given the likely wavelength of some of these waves. I do however note that the Vox Olympian was done with slanting sides, to make the horn path's width not the same along its length . I'd be inclined ( it's a pun :) ) to build up the inside of the base to form a slant, of a bit more than 30mm.
It should have a small effect on the upper midrange or lower treble.
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Ray P
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#67 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Ray P »

IslandPink wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:27 pm...build up the inside of the base to form a slant, of a bit more than 30mm.
My plan is to include a cone on the base, facing upwards and about 150mm high. Could equally be in the top, especially if I put the port in the bottom.
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#68 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Toppsy »

steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:57 pm
I'm taking about traditional full range driver types, not some of the modern crap which are flat in response and constipated in sound..
( just my view of course..)

Cheers..
With respect Steve I think you need to get out more and move on from the sounds and designs of the 1940's. Speaker design and electronics and amplifier design has moved on quantum leaps since that golden age period you seem to be stuck in. Ok if this floats your boat but it is your view which is not that of the majority of music lovers and DIY'ers or those who wish to design and sell a product that perhaps pushes the boundaries.

To quote from a recent posting over on DiyAudio forum to which I fully concur with the posters comments:
The golden age of audio isn't the 70's, its now. There has never been another period where high quality transient products are more readily available then they are now.

Stellar S/N, transient, linear, low distortion all day long, count me in. Not only that, if one spend enough time doing r&d about optimum cabinet shapes, material and filter designs (not only order but where the components are placed in the signal path), to be able to reproduce music in the cleanest way possible is no longer science fiction or magic, nor does it cost the same as a new car or your kidney.

If your heart is set on "vintage" analogue sound and amp's that have pleasant even order harmonics, then the future is probably not for you. Personally, I've been on a journey to find what combo's or technology's that remove as little as possible between me and the artist and 2020 is a really great year for that.
I know you have a lot of money and interest invested in vintage gear but things have moved on, sadly not you it seems.

Apologies to Ray for my rant and I wish you every success with the Lii Audio drivers and your speaker build. From what I have read about them and the general feedback from owners by all accounts they are some of the best current available drivers of their type.
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#69 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by pre65 »

I'm not sure you really need to be so blunt Colin, we are all friends after all ? :?
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steve s
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#70 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by steve s »

With respect Steve I think you need to get out more and move on from the sounds and designs of the 1940's. Speaker design and electronics and amplifier design has moved on quantum leaps since that golden age period you seem to be stuck in. Ok if this floats your boat but it is your view which is not that of the majority of music lovers and DIY'ers or those who wish to design and sell a product that perhaps pushes the boundaries.

To quote from a recent posting over on DiyAudio forum to which I fully concur with the posters comments:
The golden age of audio isn't the 70's, its now. There has never been another period where high quality transient products are more readily available then they are now.

Stellar S/N, transient, linear, low distortion all day long, count me in. Not only that, if one spend enough time doing r&d about optimum cabinet shapes, material and filter designs (not only order but where the components are placed in the signal path), to be able to reproduce music in the cleanest way possible is no longer science fiction or magic, nor does it cost the same as a new car or your kidney.


I know you have a lot of money and interest invested in vintage gear but things have moved on, sadly not you it seems.

Interesting comments Colin..

One thing I have learnt is that the best cabs and the nicest veneers don't always make the best sounds.

You have proved that yourself to us on many occasions

You can't make make a silk purse with a sows ear as the saying goes

I for one look forward to hearing the lii drivers as I believe they are copies of vintage drivers with an improved modern take.. and the type of drivers I like.

You seem to have missed the fact that my own speakers are 3 out of 4 modern drivers ... with all the benefits that brings. But they still based on traditional designs from way back

Your 'rant' says more about you than me Colin I'm sad to say.
Last edited by steve s on Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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izzy wizzy
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#71 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by izzy wizzy »

Toppsy wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:59 pm
steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:57 pm
I'm taking about traditional full range driver types, not some of the modern crap which are flat in response and constipated in sound..
( just my view of course..)

Cheers..
With respect Steve I think you need to get out more and move on from the sounds and designs of the 1940's. Speaker design and electronics and amplifier design has moved on quantum leaps since that golden age period you seem to be stuck in. Ok if this floats your boat but it is your view which is not that of the majority of music lovers and DIY'ers or those who wish to design and sell a product that perhaps pushes the boundaries.

To quote from a recent posting over on DiyAudio forum to which I fully concur with the posters comments:
The golden age of audio isn't the 70's, its now. There has never been another period where high quality transient products are more readily available then they are now.

Stellar S/N, transient, linear, low distortion all day long, count me in. Not only that, if one spend enough time doing r&d about optimum cabinet shapes, material and filter designs (not only order but where the components are placed in the signal path), to be able to reproduce music in the cleanest way possible is no longer science fiction or magic, nor does it cost the same as a new car or your kidney.

If your heart is set on "vintage" analogue sound and amp's that have pleasant even order harmonics, then the future is probably not for you. Personally, I've been on a journey to find what combo's or technology's that remove as little as possible between me and the artist and 2020 is a really great year for that.
I know you have a lot of money and interest invested in vintage gear but things have moved on, sadly not you it seems.

Apologies to Ray for my rant and I wish you every success with the Lii Audio drivers and your speaker build. From what I have read about them and the general feedback from owners by all accounts they are some of the best current available drivers of their type.
That's an opinion not a fact. We all like different things in life and it isn't one thing right, other thing I don't like wrong. Yes things have "moved on" but for some, that is not a better place for reproducing music in a way that satisfies the soul and it isn't about wanting "pleasant distortion". And BTW, the 70s was probably one of the worst periods for reproduced music so a bit of a straw man.
steve s
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#72 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by steve s »

With respect Steve I think you need to get out more and move on from the sounds and designs of the 1940's. Speaker design and electronics and amplifier design has moved on quantum leaps since that golden age period you seem to be stuck in. Ok if this floats your boat but it is your view which is not that of the majority of music lovers and DIY'ers or those who wish to design and sell a product that perhaps pushes the boundaries.

To quote from a recent posting over on DiyAudio forum to which I fully concur with the posters comments:
The golden age of audio isn't the 70's, its now. There has never been another period where high quality transient products are more readily available then they are now.

Stellar S/N, transient, linear, low distortion all day long, count me in. Not only that, if one spend enough time doing r&d about optimum cabinet shapes, material and filter designs (not only order but where the components are placed in the signal path), to be able to reproduce music in the cleanest way possible is no longer science fiction or magic, nor does it cost the same as a new car or your kidney.


I know you have a lot of money and interest invested in vintage gear but things have moved on, sadly not you it seems.

Interesting comments Colin..

One thing I have learnt is that the best cabs and the nicest veneers don't always make the best sounds.

You have proved that yourself to us on many occasions

You can't make make a silk purse with a sows ear as the saying goes

I for one look forward to hearing the lii drivers as I believe they are copies of vintage drivers with an improved modern take.. and the type of drivers I like.

You seem to have missed the fact that my own speakers are 3 out of 4 modern drivers ... with all the benefits that brings. But they still based on traditional designs from way back

Your 'rant' says more about you than me Colin I'm sad to say.
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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Nick
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#73 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Nick »

I feel I want to express my view on that as well hopefully without upsetting either of you, but I think:
electronics and amplifier design has moved on quantum leaps
Yes, sort of, I do think that solid state can do much better than what I thought 15 years ago, but that sound is not the norm out there, and going to shows and listening to amps, there is a lot of poor stuff, and I think a lot of designers still don't listen (or if they do, they don't hear what I do), or just do what the marketing and accounting department say. As long as you only need tiny power or don't mind a wedge of second harmonics, its much simpler to do it with triodes. But as Steve has found over the years and both myself and Andrew have been arguing for years, triodes are not as simple as you think if you want to get the best from them. Power supplies are not trivial or unimportant. Ed has been singing the praises of SS for far longer than I have been paying attention to him (to my shame). For every Nelson Pass, John Curl or Bob Cordell out there there is a lot of not so good.
The golden age of audio isn't the 70
I think that's a fact that everyone will agree about. But I was genuinely impressed with the sound of Steve's speakers the last or last but one Owston when he played the German blues guy, to me that was just very good, with out any compromise that I could hear. Again, going to shows and in particular last Munich, there are some very good modern speakers, but they are in the small majority of not so good sounding ones, and the good ones were all very very expensive, such that if you can get that sound out of vintage drivers, they sound like a bargain by comparison.
Lii Audio drivers
I do hope they are good, I still have my pair to do something with, but as is always my case its lack of time that stops me getting to them. Maybe I should just take them to Colins and get him to bolt them to a bit of wood, but the couple of hours that that trip would take is time I don't have at the weekend at the moment. Any my old faithful laptop died last night so that's another bunch of hours needed this weekend to get all the dev tools back on a new one so I can finish a couple of orders for power supplies and the batch of amps I need to finish (all of which need the processor programming).

Again, sorry, bit off topic Ray.
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Nick
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#74 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Nick »

I'm not sure you really need to be so blunt Colin, we are all friends after all ?
TBH, I would hope that as friends we should be just fine with being blunt to each other, life if too short IMHO to not say what we think. I would prefer to know that my friends can be friends even if we don't agree about everything.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
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#75 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by pre65 »

Nick wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:35 pm
I'm not sure you really need to be so blunt Colin, we are all friends after all ?
TBH, I would hope that as friends we should be just fine with being blunt to each other, life if too short IMHO to not say what we think. I would prefer to know that my friends can be friends even if we don't agree about everything.
I agree with you Nick, but being blunt without being offensive is a skill Colin has yet to master.
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