Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

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#76 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by Andrew »

Looking good, Colin. If the 10's are anything to go by you should be in for a treat.
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#77 Re: Monacor SP-312CX MLTL Speakers

Post by Toppsy »

Andrew wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:19 am Looking good, Colin. If the 10's are anything to go by you should be in for a treat.
Indeed they are a treat Andrew.

Based on the sound of the 10" MLTL speakers, I think these are the first speakers I have built that have met my expectations. I love them and they are a perfect match to my 300B SET amps:

Image

The XO components were delivered just after lunchtime on Wednesday so I straight away set about building the crossover circuits. As with the 10" MLTL's I built separate HF and LF XO boards, mounting the components onto some 3mm sheet ply using a variety of hot melt glue and/or cable ties. These are screwed to the cabinet side walls either side of the driver.

It has taken a couple of days for these big (and heavy) drivers to free up and bed in. When first fired up treble was a little recessed and bass was quite flabby and a tad slow. So initially they were a bit disappointing and I also had to turn the volume up a tad to achieve the same loudness as the less efficient smaller 10" drivers! I thought (and perhaps wrongly as it turned out) this might be down to the large gauge wire air core inductors of the bass filter perhaps sapping more power. However after a couple of hours I gradually had to turn down the volume as things freed up and the bass got tighter more fuller and the treble came to the fore as in the 10" siblings.

Now after a couple days with lots of different types of music through them I have to say they are wonderful. They have all the same clear clean wonderful treble and midrange detail of the 10" speakers but with a more forward presentation and powerful bass as one would expect from the larger driver. Bass is not overpowering but you can clearly follow the bass lines which have a more presence in the music. I 'm not convinced they go that much lower than the 10" drivers - perhaps just a tad - but what they do as said is bring what bass there is in the recording that much more forward into the mix giving the bass more presence.

Having said all this it is my opinion that these would suit a larger room. If one has a relatively small(ish) listening room then the smaller 10" version, that is not lacking in bass, would be perhaps the better option, but for the bass heads out there then these 12" MLTL's are the dogs. They certainly deliver. 8)
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Ray P
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#78 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by Ray P »

Roughly what efficiency are they Colin?

Excellent work BTW.
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#79 Re: Monacor SP-312CX MLTL's

Post by Toppsy »

Ray P wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:31 pm Roughly what efficiency are they Colin?

Excellent work BTW.
Ray, manufacturers' published sensitivity ratings are:
SP-312CX : 97dB (bass) / 106dB (tweeter).
SP-310CX : 96dB (bass) / 105dB (tweeter).

Based on the volume setting I use on these speakers in comparison to the normal level I use on my other speakers I have no reason to disbelieve the published data sheets.
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#80 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by The Stratmangler »

I thought they sounded marvellous when I popped around earlier, Colin.
They don't go much deeper than the 10" version, but the lower registers are a touch more present.
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#81 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by Andrew »

The Stratmangler wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:14 pm I thought they sounded marvellous when I popped around earlier, Colin.
They don't go much deeper than the 10" version, but the lower registers are a touch more present.
Good result then, look forward to hearing them at some point.
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#82 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by chris661 »

Just a quick note to say the Faital Pro coaxials have arrived. Through the magic of DSP I've got them sounding pretty good. A passive crossover is going to be a bit tricky, though. I'm going to give them a while to loosen up, and then measure T/S parameters.

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#83 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by Rockin_al »

Hi everyone, I'm new in the forum and I came in attracted by this project I'm going to build too, I'm very interested in the chosen alignment and the crossover studied for this system, for now I have the klangton project scheme and I'd be curious what do you think and eventually compare it to yours. Greetings from Rome


https://www.hifitest.de/test/bildergale ... 12129/14#b
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#84 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by Toppsy »

Rockin_al wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:29 am Hi everyone, I'm new in the forum and I came in attracted by this project I'm going to build too, I'm very interested in the chosen alignment and the crossover studied for this system, for now I have the klangton project scheme and I'd be curious what do you think and eventually compare it to yours. Greetings from Rome


https://www.hifitest.de/test/bildergale ... 12129/14#b
Hello and welcome to the forum.

Scott (Scottmoose on the forums) who designed the XO and cabinets for the speakers is currently in London doing some research work and though I have emailed him regards your query he may not be able to make a reply until perhaps next week, or the weekend at the earliest. But I'm sure he will post a reply.

I do know when we discussed this speaker project we were both aware of the K+T stand-mount speaker design for the 10" coax driver and I do remember Scott didn't like the XO design K+T published. The XO Scott finally designed for our MLTL speaker is simpler (i.e. fewer components) and has a different crossover frequency point to the compression tweeter.
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#85 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by Rockin_al »

I'm really curious to see the approach you had with the crossover, regarding the alignment of the K + T project from the peak of the impedance it seems that the bass reflex is around 30 htz in 35lt of volume, you seem to have hit it around 50htz (if I'm not mistaken) in about 52lt of volume, it must be said that the K + T crossover seems to try to bring out the low frequencies mortifying the sensibility of the woofer .... I think there are some good arguments for to talk about. :)
Last edited by Rockin_al on Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#86 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by Rockin_al »

P.S.Thanks for the welcome and forgive my English! :D
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#87 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by shane »

Pretty sure your English is a lot better than most people here’s Italian!
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#88 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by Scottmoose »

Snowed under with work for the foreseeable so no time for audio as such. Sorry. However, briefly:

The K+T design is tuned to about 45Hz (impedance minimum between the twin vented box peaks). However, F6 (-6dB point) as can be seen in the FR, is around 80Hz, and about -18dB at Fb; granted these are [presumably pseudo] anechoic measures so room gain will give a bit of a boost, but it's not likely to offer a great deal more usable extension. The MLTL I designed for Colin & Chris does offer usable output to the low-40Hz region, at the price of being larger.

As for the filter, details naturally differ with box size & design choices; the wider baffle & relatively near-wall design intention tends to allow for a slightly higher average SPL as less correction is needed. The XO frequency is different, as is the topology; I don't much like 1st order electrical high pass filters as they can't stop driver excursion increasing below the crossover frequency, and the tank notch shaping the main unit is a little closer to the transition band than I like. YMMV. Given the baffle size & use, I put a little shaping into the response; on-axis FR responses don't tell you the full story of how a speaker sounds, or anything like. And since these were originally intended for Chris & Colin, and I knew what the amplifiers would be, I didn't bother with an impedance flattening LCR over the terminals as they wouldn't be troubled. Easy enough to add if desired at a later date of course.
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#89 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by Rockin_al »

Indeed the PB of the K + T cross "mortifies" I believe too the W sacrificing the SPL, and yes ....... a first order could be a problem, I am intrigued (and very :)) with the solution used here
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#90 Re: Monacor SP-310CX Coaxial Driver MLTL's

Post by petr.kosin »

Hello, greetings from Czech Republic, from the city of Budweiser Beer :)
I am new to all these topics, so sorry if my questions are weird... I like to work with wood, but I have only google experiences with all the other stuff around speakers. I would like to build closed (without back bassreflex) floor speakers, because they need to be close to the wall. They can be of any height or volume.
- Do you think there there can be right closed cabinet for these Monacors? What volume would it be?
- Can simply calculate any e.g. 3rd order crossover for 2 x 8 ohm and 1800 Hz in web caluclator, or does crossover for closed cabinet have to be any special?
- Or would turning bassreflex of this topic speakers to the side work?
Again sorry if I am totaly wrong with my questions and if yes, advice me to spend budget for some commercial build...but I have not found any commercial floor standing without bassreflex in this budget.
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