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Nick
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#76 Re: Jokes

Post by Nick »

jack wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:16 am
Nick wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:10 am
Not all humour is casual racism.
No, but some is.
...which is a direct corollary of what I said.
Of course, but there is more to a sentence than its logical consistency it also conveys meaning, My comment talked to the meaning of your text not the fact that logically what you say is correct.

I would pose this question. Does the picture in question make use of an oft repeated and historically unfounded stereotype about a group of people and without that stereotype is it in any way funny? I would suggest that unless you can answer those two questions in any other way than yes and no, it is by definition racist. I am unsure just what type of meaning the adjective casual adds in this or any case.

IMHO, Mark and Andrew are correct to question this, I thought about it last night but to my shame didn’t comment, they did and should be applauded. TBH, the blond joke is no better.
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#77 Re: Jokes

Post by pre65 »

Jack,

I hear you are a racist now.

:lol:
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#78 Re: Jokes

Post by jack »

I disagree with your binary definitions and absolutist statements - the world is a subtle place.

Having been subject to direct racism myself in South America, I have a small understanding of what it can be like. Bizarrely, one time it was some Argentinians who had a go because I was English, but on another occasion it was some Argentinians who thought I was Chilean (they really dislike Chileans). On another occasion I was harangued by a bunch of Ecuadoreans who thought I was a gringo (non-Hispanic American). All very strange.
Last edited by jack on Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#79 Re: Jokes

Post by jack »

pre65 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:05 am Jack,

I hear you are a racist now.

:lol:
That was Ted. Jack was a stereotypical violently drunk foul-mouthed nun-hating Irish priest. But because it was Irish actors with Irish writers filmed in Ireland, that's ok. Or is it?
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andrew Ivimey
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#80 Re: Jokes

Post by andrew Ivimey »

erm, although anti semitism is as big as and long lasting as 'western civilisation it is not strictly relevant to painting a white flag with a red cross and slagging off 'the french', surely.

Casual as daubing a swastika on a wall is hugely different because of what the Nazis made out of this ancient symbol.Repetition of such behaviour is becoming less acceptable but it continues to erode deep down any sensitivity to a peaceful and gentle society we might believe to be desirable.

But what does casual racism do to us? Nothing positive . Like misogyny it bolsters up the idea that its okay to criticise women or anyone different because 'we're only having a laugh. Ironically the humour that is typical in 'On the buses' might be a '.... necessary stage of development as a host society takes on newcomers and assimilates...' But in our lifetimes we continue to see appalling continuous examples of how history repeats itself because we don't stand up and say enough!
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#81 Re: Jokes

Post by pre65 »

jack wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:10 am
pre65 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:05 am Jack,

I hear you are a racist now.

:lol:
That was Ted. Jack was a stereotypical violently drunk foul-mouthed nun-hating Irish priest. But because it was Irish actors with Irish writers filmed in Ireland, that's ok. Or is it?
I used "Jack" as a reference to your user name, not the drunk foul mouthed priest.
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#82 Re: Jokes

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Father Ted.... WOW. how much time have you? Perhaps just so long as we pretty much agree with Jack's description we could pass by on the other side....possibly, couldn't we....for now.

Think Spike Milligan, Basil Fawlty and well there's lots more which can be looked at and criticised. Perhaps Monty Python got away with it because because everybody came in for a serious piss take....

Much indeed there is to talk about.
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#83 Re: Jokes

Post by Nick »

jack wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:09 am I disagree with your binary definitions and absolutist statements - the world is a subtle place
Agreed, but I don't see any subtilty in the picture in question. Do you?
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#84 Re: Jokes

Post by ed »

there's a good chance Mark wishes he hadn't posted now......
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#85 Re: Jokes

Post by jack »

pre65 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 am
jack wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:10 am
pre65 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:05 am Jack,

I hear you are a racist now.

:lol:
That was Ted. Jack was a stereotypical violently drunk foul-mouthed nun-hating Irish priest. But because it was Irish actors with Irish writers filmed in Ireland, that's ok. Or is it?
I used "Jack" as a reference to your user name, not the drunk foul mouthed priest.
But if you look at my avatar, it is Father Jack... EDIT: Correction! I forgot I changed it a while back. Silly me. The "Jack" part is still named after Father Jack Hackett though...

Anyway. We all agree racism is a bad thing.
Last edited by jack on Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#86 Re: Jokes

Post by jack »

Nick wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:41 am
jack wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:09 am I disagree with your binary definitions and absolutist statements - the world is a subtle place
Agreed, but I don't see any subtilty in the picture in question. Do you?
Depends on your definition of "subtilty" - "subtle as a punch in the face" or "oooooooh that's subtle". Again, not a binary adjective.

As you might by now have guessed, I'm playing devil's advocate.

My allotted five minutes on this has expired. I have some bees to attend to...
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#87 Re: Jokes

Post by Ali Tait »

I can only speak of my direct experiences- my ex wife was Asian in appearance, her father was Japanese and her mother from the Seychelles, she was born here and brought up Catholic. We experienced racist comments or looks on many many occasions when we were out together. Not once from any white people though. Most often it was from older Asian women who would look in horror at the Asian woman who was with a white man. They would often make some comment in what i assume was Urdu or similar, I guess because they assumed she would know what they were saying.
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#88 Re: Jokes

Post by IslandPink »

ed wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:42 am there's a good chance Mark wishes he hadn't posted now......
I only just got up. What happened ? :)
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#89 Re: Jokes

Post by IslandPink »

jack wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:41 am As a Jew, I have a problem with criticism of the state of Israel.

Not that I disapprove of such criticism generally, just that most folk seem to conflate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism.

I can criticise the creation of the the West Bank settlements in occupied land because I'm Jewish. If a Muslim/Christian/atheist does it, it's anti-Semitism.

To me, that's hypocrisy.
Oooh, that's interesting - very interesting.
So would you say that is typically the standpoint of most Jewish people, that if others criticise the behaviour of Israel, then it's just anti-semitism in disguise ?
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#90 Re: Jokes

Post by Nick »

Depends on your definition of "subtilty" - "subtle as a punch in the face" or "oooooooh that's subtle". Again, not a binary adjective.
Again agreed, but some times a first approximation IS all that is required to arrive at the correct answer, extra terms are not always required. Sometimes 3.14 is close enough.

BTW, in the above quote you seem again to be mixing usage with definition. in both examples the same definition can be used but the usage suggests different intent.
I'm playing devil's advocate
I wonder what game theory would say about both sides playing that part...
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