A Final Go With Vinyl

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Cressy Snr
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#1 A Final Go With Vinyl

Post by Cressy Snr »

This may be a long term thread, as I'm not sure how far I will get, but I'm currently sorting through my old records.
The intention is to get rid of all the pop and rock stuff from the 80s, the stuff that so pissed me off, it led to me becoming disillusioned - eventually despising the medium.

The intention over the next twelve months is to buy a simple locally (Derbyshire) produced turntable, in the form of the Inspire Black Magic Si, fit it with a Denon DL103 and use it to play my long neglected jazz and soul vinyl. Or maybe I could restore a nice old something or other.

It's the phono stage that will be the thing that makes or breaks this project.
It will need to be balanced, to match my amplification and in Valve Amplifiers 4th ed, Morgan Jones details a balanced hybrid RIAA stage using semiconductors in the form of CCSs, bottom halves of hybrid cascodes and ending with source followers driving the connecting cables to the outside world.

I will be building that, plus a power supply that must provide 200V of clean DC.

So what I need to do first is to bring some of my Jazz vinyl to Owston and play it through Ali's balanced phono stage into my balanced amplifier.
This will tell me if I think the project is worth doing.

This is unfamiliar territory so hopefully the semiconductor guys on here will give me some tips on layouts and handling these three legged beasties.

Should be good (I hope) :)
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Greg
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#2 Re: A Final Go With Vinyl

Post by Greg »

SteveTheShadow wrote:The intention over the next twelve months is to buy a simple locally (Derbyshire) produced turntable, in the form of the Inspire Black Magic Si, fit it with a Denon DL103 and use it to play my long neglected jazz and soul vinyl. Or maybe I could restore a nice old something or other.
Hmmm, well I have spent time with Bob Isherwood of Inspire. Nice guy and easy to get along with. I Don't recognise your reference to a Black Magic S1 and it is not featured on his website unless I'm missing something.

Certainly his conversions for Linn and Technique decks are affordably inspired..no pun intended.

I doubt your choice of DL103 will give you the best experience. I would dig a bit deeper. Talk to Domonic at Northwerst Anologue to get a better understanding on what would probably work best for you.

Bob is very approachable and open to listening sessions at his factory. Don't hesitate to contact him to set up a session to help you. Certainly he will happily accommodate your kit in his system for evaluation.
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Cressy Snr
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#3

Post by Cressy Snr »

Cheers Greg.
Some food for thought.
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Cressy Snr
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#4

Post by Cressy Snr »

Oh BTW here is the link to the Black Magic Si

http://www.inspirehifi.co.uk/black-magic-si.html
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IslandPink
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#5

Post by IslandPink »

I think the 103 will be perfect for you Steve, if you get the right sort of phono for it. One of the problems with the 103 is the high output impedance which can work poorly into a lot of phonos with step-up transformers. You can then lose the pace and bass response.
When I used the standard 103 into the jFet front-end on my phono during the experiments at that time , the bass came alive. Something like Nick's jFet/ECC88 phono he's used at the Owston meets would be ideal .
The 103 is very tolerant of 1960's vinyl, singles, s/h records etc.
The midrange tone to my ears is far superior to more modern carts in the same price range. [/i]
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#6

Post by Cressy Snr »

Hi Mark.
The balanced hybrid RIAA stage design by Morgan Jones is actually designed for the DL103, which is one of the reasons why I chose it to partner the inspire turntable, but an Ortofon low output MC would work too, so my options are still open. I did have a DL103 when I had my Roksan Radius 5 turntable and liked its sound on my jazz stuff.
The only problem I see is getting the pickup arm balanced wired, but I'm sure Bob Isherwood would set me up with a custom set of XLR sockets at the base of the arm - for a fee of course.
But that's a long way down the road. I'm going steady with this one.
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Thu May 29, 2014 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#7

Post by Neal »

I'm with Greg, don't go the 103 route. A while back I would have recommended it but recent experience of a 103D rebuilt with a Fine Line stylus and new cantilever shows just how crude the basic 103 is...it requires too much supporting ancillary equipment as well to make it 'work' to any acceptable degree, OK for the dedicated but I fear Steve you will find it far too flawed. ;)
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#8

Post by Cressy Snr »

Neal wrote:I'm with Greg, don't go the 103 route. A while back I would have recommended it but recent experience of a 103D rebuilt with a Fine Line stylus and new cantilever shows just how crude the basic 103 is...it requires too much supporting ancillary equipment as well to make it 'work' to any acceptable degree, OK for the dedicated but I fear Steve you will find it far too flawed. ;)
Well yes, I want to get this right.
Any mistracking or end of side nonsense and as far as I'm concerned, vinyl can sod off for good.

So I'm relying on you guys quite a bit with this project and greatly value your opinions.
As you lot can see, I'm well out of my comfort zone. :)
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#9

Post by Neal »

Yep, and it's why the 103 will piss you off ;) Don't let the cartridge dictate the whole vinyl replay chain, select the deck and arm then the appropriate cartridge not the other way 'round...yes I've come a full 180 deg! LOL! :shock:
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#10

Post by Lee S »

Steve, why not consider a decent second hand plug and play linear tracker, such as a Technics SL-QL1 or SL7? Small, compact, reliable, direct drive, affordable and you can fit them with quite decent carts such as Ortofons (OM30 or 40) and the SL10 will take a MC cart too? Just a thought.

It was the "faff" of conventional TTs that annoyed me after a while. Alignment, speed control, size, distortion, etc. Now it's like playing a CD. Put record on, close lid, press play, retire and listen. Auto return at EOS, LT so no inner groove distortion, track selection, small footprint, SL7 and 10 will play vertically if you want to save more room, etc , etc.

Call me a heathen if you will, but some of my records have never sounded so good to my ears, than through an SL-QL1 fitted with an Ortofon OM40. Lazy? Moi? Maybe, but prefer to spend time listening than "faffing" these days. Food for thought maybe?
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#11

Post by Ali Tait »

Steve, I'm currently enjoying a Goldring Eroica LX cart at the moment, which I'd put into the "ok but not great" category until last night, when I decided to have a fiddle with VTA. It's really come on song now I've dropped the tail a litttle. Should sound even better in the Tecnoarm. See what you think at Owston.
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#12

Post by Will »

the thought of a 103 on a 9" arm playing end of side arrhhhhhhhhh!!

the 1st track cant be played (sticky fingers) the 2nd-3rd are wrecked by the 103 but the rest are pristine so not all lost.

12" ebony knitting needle + magnets + fishing line + tracks 4,5,6 = heaven :D

.........
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Ali Tait
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#13

Post by Ali Tait »

Coming to Owston Will?
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IslandPink
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#14

Post by IslandPink »

Looks like I've put my foot in it again .
I'll get me coat .

The phono amp sounds good Steve , would like to hear that .
A couple of questions that might narrow down possibilities :
(i) what sort of arm(s) are you likely to be using ?
(cos arms and carts tend to go in partnerships )
(ii) a while back you said what keeps putting you off vinyl is a particular problem, or sound, that you hear every time you hear a vinyl set-up . Was that correct ? - if so, can you put into words any more info about what it is you hear ?
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#15

Post by steve s »

I would spend your money on a classic s/h player
Im sure Ant could make a modern plinth, and you will always get your money back, a good 301 / 401/ 88 or the likes is much more cost effective in the long term..
And much more saleable if you give up (again..).
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