Digital storage oscilloscope

We all start somewhere
Max N
Old Hand
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:10 pm

#16

Post by Max N »

Nick wrote:Its max input voltage is 400Vp BTW.
Thanks, post edited
Nick wrote:Not that I mind what scope you get, but you are comparing one scope that the cost of a pair of probes for is more than the cost of the entire other scope (which includes probes, not a great pair, but very usable)
Oh, the thread probably doesn't come across how I intended. I agree completely about the relative cost. I was trying to highlight that the UNI-T scope had a remarkable level of performance for a tiny fraction of the cost of the TDS. I did say that the TDS was still >£5K

Here's how I read it:

Bandwidth - UTD is lower at 25MHz but this is high enough for audio use - high enough to display any likely oscillation (which I can't do with my analog scope) :thumbright:

Sample rate - UTD is lower at 250MS/s, but this is entirely appropriate for a 25MHz bandwidth and is high enough for audio :thumbright:

Record length - UTD is comfortably better here. :thumbright:

Vertical resolution - UTD is 8-bit, one bit lower than TDS - but 8-bit should be enough. For FFT we should use an audio test set or other equipment that filters out the fundamental and passes the residual onto the scope :thumbright:

Vertical sensitivity - UTD is very close to the TDS, and certainly good enough :thumbright:

Max input voltage - UTD score here with 400Vp cf 150V RMS (212Vp) :thumbright:

Timebase - UTD bottom limit is 20ns/div cf 2ns/div for the TDS. 20ns/div is entirely appropriate for a 25MHz bandwidth - a 25MHz waveform will occupy 2 divisions. So for audio work this isn't a limitation :thumbright:

Display - UTD has a lower resolution display. But it is very usable and helps the scope to be easily portable

Adding everything up and taking into account the remarkably low cost of the UTD it seems like a real bargain. I could stick with my analog CRT scope but for one thing - the FFT. This is such a useful feature that I will have to upgrade. The ability to display oscillation is another big factor in favor of the digital scope.
Max N
Old Hand
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:10 pm

#17

Post by Max N »

ed wrote:Hi Max

I bought a utd2062c a while back....I havn't really had a chance to thrash it yet but what I have seen is rock solid. In comparison to my old farnell 40 mhz it's like having the hand that was tied behind my back being released.......

100% recommendation so far....

I was going to get the 2025 that Nick recommmended but the diff in the price between that and the 60mhz was £10...so I thought if I ever want to sell it on then the higher spec would surely be easier....

I bought from the guy that has the distribution contract for uni-t, check him out he may still have deals

diet: labtronix in loughborough is the distributor/dealer
Oops :!:
Just bought a UTD2062C from Labtronix - thanks Ed. And thanks to Nick also for bringing these scopes to our attention. And to Andrew for linking to it in the phono post. I had just been reading MJ's section on digital scopes when I saw Andrew's link - I think that's why I 'got it' this time around, and didn't get it when Nick originally brought them up. Also I think I may have been absent when Nick first took it to a meeting.

There's no doubt that the 2025 from Rapid is the real bargain. If they had stock I would have gone for one of those. Labtronix have stock but their price for the 2025 is higher. Their price for the 2062 is quite a lot lower than Rapid. I'm actually thinking now that I probably should have ordered a 2025 from Rapid for delivery when they get stock back in.
Andrew
Eternally single
Posts: 4206
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 2:18 pm

#18

Post by Andrew »

EDIT: Ooops sorry Max I seem to have posted this a bit late, not that one of the scopes isn't a fine purchase and I'm sure you won't regret it.

Before you leap Max, can I suggest also looking into a 24bit PC sound card and software like AudioTester, you can use a distortion analyser or one of these http://www.pmillett.com/ATEST.htm as the front end. I just want too add this into the mix as I think this is a very viable alternative solution for FTT and swept frequency measurements. It is possible more expensive if you don't have the soundcard. You can, however, keep the costs down and miss quite a lot off Pete's box-of-tricks if you don't want to use the sound card as the signal gen.

Andrew
Analogue, the lost world that lies between 0 and 1.
Andrew
Eternally single
Posts: 4206
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 2:18 pm

#19

Post by Andrew »

PPS. I think the 60Mhz is a good choice, Max.
Analogue, the lost world that lies between 0 and 1.
Max N
Old Hand
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:10 pm

#20

Post by Max N »

No worries Andrew. You're absolutely right about the soundcard plus interface plus software route, it is a valid solution. I am in the habit of using a scope and I think I would rather stick with that approach. :)
Andrew
Eternally single
Posts: 4206
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 2:18 pm

#21

Post by Andrew »

Well the thing about the sound card is that it doesn't do a great job of being a scope, to be honest, its very good for swept measurements and FFT, however, so you end up needing both if you go the sound card route.

Andrew
Last edited by Andrew on Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Analogue, the lost world that lies between 0 and 1.
User avatar
ed
retired
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:01 pm
Location: yorkshire
Contact:

#22

Post by ed »

for economical FFT this has had a lot of positive feedback from diyaudio:

http://www.vitalstates.org/diy/amplifie ... rement.pdf

when I messed about 18 months ago it was £25, not sure how much now....it can't be that far off the mark tho as it still gets 150 downloads a month
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be
User avatar
Nick
Site Admin
Posts: 15751
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:20 am
Location: West Yorkshire

#23

Post by Nick »

Yes, for FFT, Andrews front end to a sound card is vastly better. I should have said, the FFT on the scope I have is ok, but not ideal for audio use, the 8bit (or whatever) resolution hurts it.

I think I should force myself to make one of them next year.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
Andrew
Eternally single
Posts: 4206
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 2:18 pm

#24

Post by Andrew »

Nick wrote:Yes, for FFT, Andrews front end to a sound card is vastly better. I should have said, the FFT on the scope I have is ok, but not ideal for audio use, the 8bit (or whatever) resolution hurts it.

I think I should force myself to make one of them next year.
I haven't regretted the investment!
Analogue, the lost world that lies between 0 and 1.
Neal
Shed dweller
Posts: 2300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:57 am
Location: From the land of the Bodgers

#25

Post by Neal »

I've just bought a 2026C as well from Labtronix to replace my old Instek 20Mhz. I've started to get to grips with the HP 333A Andrew sold me and would like to see what the breakdown of the distortion is, getting some good low THD figures but they don't really tell me much...
Andrew
Eternally single
Posts: 4206
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 2:18 pm

#26

Post by Andrew »

At this point I would connect the your new scope up to the back of the 333A, you can see the remaining distortion waveform on the scope, then run an FFT.

Please post some images if you can Neal.

Andrew
Analogue, the lost world that lies between 0 and 1.
Neal
Shed dweller
Posts: 2300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:57 am
Location: From the land of the Bodgers

#27

Post by Neal »

OK will do when it arrives...
Neal
Shed dweller
Posts: 2300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:57 am
Location: From the land of the Bodgers

#28

Post by Neal »

....actually you can derive something useful, I hadn't realised you can X-Y compare the input and output on the 'scope and the diagrams in the manual give an indication of the predominant nature of the distortion...

I've also realised I've probably connected the amp up incorrectly! I take it the amp still must see a 'normal' load so I still need to connect 8R across the outputs? and not just drive the 333A as a load....
User avatar
Mike H
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 20189
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: The Fens
Contact:

#29

Post by Mike H »

I zink zo yes! Flippin' 'eck .. :lol:
 
"No matter how fast light travels it finds that the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it."
Neal
Shed dweller
Posts: 2300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:57 am
Location: From the land of the Bodgers

#30

Post by Neal »

Well I am a beginner at this! ;)
Post Reply