what are you doing ?

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pre65
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by pre65 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:36 pm

Many a time I've used a scalpel to extricate a thorn from under the skin.

Blackberry brambles are my worst problem.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. John Lennon

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Dave the bass
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by Dave the bass » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:31 pm

pre65 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:36 pm
Blackberry brambles are my worst problem.
Good lordy no! Your taste in music is FAR worse than that! Heheheheheheheheheheheheheh (etc etc etc..)
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Stew my foot and call me Brenda".

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pre65
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by pre65 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:35 pm

Dave the bass wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:31 pm
pre65 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:36 pm
Blackberry brambles are my worst problem.
Good lordy no! Your taste in music is FAR worse than that! Heheheheheheheheheheheheheh (etc etc etc..)
Did I ever tell you about my digestive problems ? :lol:

And I don't mean the biscuits.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. John Lennon

G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)

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jack
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by jack » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:14 pm

Just made a replacement ledged and braced stable door for the workshop cellar. Big. 7' 6" x 4'. For various reasons, top opens outwards and bottom bit opens inwards.

Blooming heavy. Made from 1" x 6" pressure treated rough sawn planks routed with lapped joints.

110 stainless 5.5x40 screws and 40 6x50 stainless coach bolts.

I'll stain it black.
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Last edited by jack on Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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simon
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by simon » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:31 pm

Don't know why, but I was thinking about those Lutyens benches you've been making for NT earler Nick. Which wood did you use, white oak perhaps. And did you treat it with anything?

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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by jack » Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:10 am

simon wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:31 pm
Don't know why, but I was thinking about those Lutyens benches you've been making for NT earler Nick. Which wood did you use, white oak perhaps. And did you treat it with anything?
We use FSC northern European oak and the outdoor furniture leaves the workshops untreated as most of the NT's properties like the oak to go grey naturally. This of course shortens the life of the benches to maybe 5 to 10 years.

When you consider the open market cost of a bench like the 8' Lutyens ones (£4,500), not treating the benches seems, to say the least, odd.

As the workshops are largely run not-for-a-lot-of-profit, the internal NT price is obviously a lot lower, but I still find it a bit frustrating that most properties don't treat them or, for that matter, put them under cover in winter.

Some properties do care for them better than others - we've made furniture (and bigger stuff like bridges) for over half the NT properties in the south east, so there's a lot of stuff out there...
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by JohnG » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:08 am

The Ledge and Brace Door is a admirable piece of work.
I am not familiar with the joint of the Ledge and Brace, but it looks like a extra secure non slip connection,
does it have a noticeable improvement over the usual Butt Joints seen on this design ?

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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by simon » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:26 am

Yes that does seem a bit odd Nick. I get the weathering silvery look, but the cost to life ratio is a little eye watering.

I've some bench slats to replace sometime, the cheap softwood stopgap has finally rotted away. The question is what to replace them with. Cedar is the obvious outdoor choice for longevity, but I'm not sure it's the right wood for this application. I though oak was much longer lived than 5 years, perhaps this is only if treated?

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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by jack » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:18 pm

JohnG wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:08 am
The Ledge and Brace Door is a admirable piece of work.
I am not familiar with the joint of the Ledge and Brace, but it looks like a extra secure non slip connection,
does it have a noticeable improvement over the usual Butt Joints seen on this design ?
Ta. Most ledge and brace doors are a bit cosmetic - they are lightweight so the l&b are there just for a bit of rigidity rather than keep the door square.

A solid thick door like the one I've just done is really heavy and as it's also wide, there's a tendancy in time for the outside edge to drop. i.e. the brace needs to actually work...

The joint I used is a traditional one and is far stronger than the simple butted joint used on 95% of commercial offerings - also, this is a 150 year old building, so traditional is "right". It's not tricky to cut and apart from actually doing a proper job, it looks nice too...
simon wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:26 am
Yes that does seem a bit odd Nick. I get the weathering silvery look, but the cost to life ratio is a little eye watering.

I've some bench slats to replace sometime, the cheap softwood stopgap has finally rotted away. The question is what to replace them with. Cedar is the obvious outdoor choice for longevity, but I'm not sure it's the right wood for this application. I though oak was much longer lived than 5 years, perhaps this is only if treated?
For domestic use an oak bench, if cared for, would last 15 to 30 years.

The NT's benches get a stupid amount of use, sometimes from very large people. Sissinghurst gets over 200,000 visitors a year.

Cedar is not good for benches imho. Have a look at iroko - cheaper than oak and looks good, though fussy about how it's machined...
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Ray P
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by Ray P » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:37 pm

Hestercombe Gardens, just a couple of miles up the road from us, is famous for its Edwardian garden, which is a Jekyll/Lutyens collaboration, and has quite a few Lutyens benches - every winter they're brought under cover and treated and I'm pretty sure some of them are now into their third decade of service (we've been visiting for that long).

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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by IslandPink » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:13 pm

Ray P wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:37 pm
which is a Jekyll/Lutyens collaboration,
They're much better and less messy than those Jekyll/Hyde collaborations, aren't they ?
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by JohnG » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:24 pm

On the subject of NT Buildings, I was in the company of a restoration specialist who were looking into a issue that I was trying to get resolved.
Much of the Companies work is carried out on Charred Oak, they salvage the Oak by removing the carbon deposits with dry ice.
I got most excited when they showed me removing the carbon deposits from extremely expensive vintage vehicles cylinder heads.
There is no abrasive required so the surfaces of the treated materials remain unmarked.
A off and on topic addition.

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pre65
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by pre65 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:29 pm

JohnG wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:24 pm

There is no abrasive required so the surfaces of the treated materials remain unmarked.
A off and on topic addition.
Vapour blasting, or bead blasting is good too.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. John Lennon

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jack
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by jack » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:33 pm

Ray P wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:37 pm
Hestercombe Gardens, just a couple of miles up the road from us, is famous for its Edwardian garden, which is a Jekyll/Lutyens collaboration, and has quite a few Lutyens benches - every winter they're brought under cover and treated and I'm pretty sure some of them are now into their third decade of service (we've been visiting for that long).
Private charitable trust, not NT. Different rules...
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Ray P
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Re: what are you doing ?

Post by Ray P » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:52 pm

jack wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:33 pm
Private charitable trust, not NT. Different rules...
Yes, I'm well aware, just pointng out that they look after their benches and get a good life out of them as a result. Seems sensible to make things last in this day and age.
Last edited by Ray P on Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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