Corona Virus Lock Down 'Rant' Thread.

[Ray P]

See posts about nose and throat clearing:-)

Funny you should mention that Nick, as I've become very conscious of the potential implications around clearing my nose when out cycling, and how it could be construed. I now cycle on routes that largely avoid signifcantly habitated locations (fortunately not too difficult down here) and ensure that I'm not within visible distance of anybody else, including cars, before having a blow. Fortunately the warmer weather significantly reduces the need too.

[Greg]

Well, it’s all a conundrum. Certainly John did nothing to contribute to the virus spread, but he could have. If in the course of his round trip he had inadvertently been involved in an injury road collision, then without doubt, he, his wife and the possible occupants of another vehicle could have resulted in close human association which could be a virus spreader. Equally, it might not and we’ll never know.

I treat this as a personal preservation thing. I’m locked down, not going out apart for my private garden and one walk a day where I go out of my way to distance myself from any other individual out and about. I’ve stopped working because the pharmacy I was based in could not practically apply staff distancing owing to the confined business space. I or my wife independently only drive to the food store to stock up with essential food items. Mostly done by my wife because she has a key NHS role and is into work at a hospital 4 days a week. I have to accept that vulnerability this brings to both of us.

With the legislation being so ill defined and there having been no time for the courts to consider it’s plausibility to create case law, there is no guidance. You and I and the Police are making there own interpretations. In consequence, John could argue that in the interest of his family wellbeing, his drive past event was an essential journey. He may be right or wrong, but we don’t know because the legislation has never been tested.

In consequence, let’s not attack our fellow forum members over their actions relating to this lock down and it’s pretty crap legislation because anything you say will be based simply on your interpretation of that untested legislation. You might be right, you might be wrong, but in the current climate, none of that matters. Let’s just be totally friendly and non-judgemental as we all try to work out ways of keeping our family love and social acquaintances alive.

I completely understand why you did what you did, John. That would not have been my choice as much as I would want to do it, but as said, there is no detailed guidance.

This thing remains suck and see.

[Ray P]

Greg, I didn't even think about it as a legislation issue, it's just about everyone taking personal responsibility, making sacrifices and pulling together to do the right things.

[shane]

I must say, I can’t see why going for a drive is any more socially irresponsible than going for a walk or a cycle ride, both of which are more likely to result in inadvertent proximity to others. Admittedly driving isn’t a form of exercise, but it can certainly be just as beneficial to mental health, which, as the government is at pains to point out, is just as important as physical well-being.

[IslandPink]

Well said, Shane.
The current infection rates and death rates are more or less entirely due to what we were doing 3 weeks ago. The niceties of whether you go out for a bike ride away from people or a short car drive are 'down in the noise' as far as I am concerned. Far more important for infection now are shopping, people being forced to go to work, esp. on public transport, NHS people without proper PPE equipment, and in companies ( like ours ) where they can't properly maintain 2m distance.

Steve - I was discussing the same issue about Boris Johnson's health earlier today. I am not at all surprised - having a temperature for a week and not resting properly is not a great sign things will go well.

[Greg]

Greg, I didn't even think about it as a legislation issue, it's just about everyone taking personal responsibility, making sacrifices and pulling together to do the right things.

Yes, I completely agree, but my point is your sense of personal responsibility, sacrifice and pulling together is absolutely likely to be different from another’s interpretation on this. Hence all the inconsistency of police enforcement across the country because it is simply down to interpretation without any case law guidance. I know your take will be basically applying common sense. I’ve learnt over the years, particularly from my wife that my sense of common sense is not the same others have. People interpret things differently. Without guidance, we just have to accept that variety and in so doing, not knock those who choose to behave differently from what you would. Obviously there has to be some rationality in all this. The law frequently uses the term, ‘what a common man would accept, allow, do etc. I know this is the common sense approach you are advocating, however, until it is established in law, all opinions remain valid, regardless of whether we like it or not.

Doesn’t alter the fact that I (and I hope others) would prefer members here to remain non-judgemental regarding the things individuals do. You might not agree with what they’ve done, but what benefit have you achieved by calling it out? Bugger all in my view.

[Ray P]

Doesn’t alter the fact that I (and I hope others) would prefer members here to remain non-judgemental regarding the things individuals do. You might not agree with what they’ve done, but what benefit have you achieved by calling it out? Bugger all in my view.

Because silence gives the action legitimacy, questioning it might make people more conscious of their behaviours.

And to be honest and frank, because I'm selfish too - it grates to put myself consientiously and meticulously through this lockdown, working from home, using my car to do only about 5miles for two shops in the last fortnight, queuing up for an hour outside a pharmacy to collect a prescription, seeing the stress on the faces of the supermarket workers, the fear on the face of a colleague who's daughter is a senior nurse at a London hospital and is now off work with the start of a cough, blah, blah, blah when others think its OK to go for a relaxing drive.

One other thought; my mum is in her mid-80s and lives in an area where there are a lot of cases/deaths. It's entirely possible that I'll never see her again. Maybe I should drive down to see her but, upon reflection, its best all round if I just keep picking up the phone.

I've had my rant so I'll piss off now.

[IslandPink]

..when others think its OK to go for a relaxing drive.

I don't think that was the point of John's drive.
And how do you know he wasn't doing all of the other things ( sacrifices ) that you were doing, as well.
And in any case ... as if it matters - from the scientific point of view of infection spread.
Hey - and ps. - all of you old people have taken all of the available slots for supermarket home deliveries - the supermarkets are not accepting any new customers round here. I deliberately held back from trying to get that for myself, knowing that other, more deserving people, needed it more than me. So I still go to the shops even though it's a greater risk.
Just saying ...

[JohnG]

I have to confess, in disclosing my activities from the home since the 24-03-2020,
I overlooked my few hours spent in my Garden yesterday, relocating the insulation boards.

My Drive was a planned journey, where my arrival at the destination was expected, it was planned with a intention/purpose to be able to see a Family Member from a distance on their Fourth Birthday.
It certainly was not a aimless relaxed drive.

Was there a beneficial outcome, yes, it was good for my mental well being, you bet it was.
Did other Family Members who witnessed our meaningful gesture benefit from seeing it/us, I hope so and the welcome was very enjoyable.

I have read up on follow up posts since my disclosure about how I did a Eight Mile Round Trip in my vehicle.
I am relieved that certain posts recognise the importance of of mental well being, and how maintaining mental health is required to keeping in good health.

I have used Public Highways for a Eight Mile round trip in a Vehicle since the 24-03-2020,
I am at present a low risk vehicle user, and looking at the time I chose to drive and the Traffic that was met,
I would say my journey was as low risk as one could wish, but I do see the point about how a unforeseen occurrence could have impacted on others.

I have been transparent about my Days activities and the purpose of a particular activity, I reported on a few things I witnessed when on a Public Highway, as a result of that report, through my placing myself in situation where I could witness such things,
I am now being subjected to criticisms.

[Greg]

Don’t get hung up on it all, John. As I’ve explained, everyone has their own interpretation. Whilst I am completely sympathetic to Ray’s situation, it is nothing less than many of us currently are dealing with. He is feeling the pain just like many of us are also feeling that pain.. it’s a time to ignore an individuals argument and simply apply some empathy where
ever it might be needed.

Yes Ray, I agree with your common sense approach 100% but sadly, not everyone’s minds are wired the same way and undoubtably they will interpret differently to you and me.

[Ray P]

I don't think that was the point of John's drive.

Fair enough, but it was still unnecesary and he could have used technology.

And how do you know he wasn't doing all of the other things ( sacrifices ) that you were doing, as well.

Did I suggest he wasn't? Your point being? This isn't a scenario where you get a prize for being good.

And in any case ... as if it matters - from the scientific point of view of infection spread.

It matters because if it's OK for one it must be OK for everyone. There are over 37million vehicles in the UK, that'll change the game.

Hey - and ps. - all of you old people have taken all of the available slots for supermarket home deliveries - the supermarkets are not accepting any new customers round here. I deliberately held back from trying to get that for myself, knowing that other, more deserving people, needed it more than me. So I still go to the shops even though it's a greater risk.

It's entirely right that home delivery slots are prioritised towards the more vulnerable in our society. I'm 62 so getting into the higher risk groupings but being fit and strong I reasoned there are others who need the service far more than me so I haven't even contemplated using it (I first started to use home delivery about 10yrs ago BTW so I've actually consciously stopped using it). Just saying.

[jack]

I'm a member of a very large cycling club in the SE. We have lots of groups who went out on Saturdays and Wednesdays - each group does different speeds/distances/ascents etc.

Some on the groups that I went with were still organising, via WhatsApp, circular rides where folk all set off at the same time from different points round the loop, so no actual cycling together. These were 30+ mile loops taking 2:30 to 3:30 to complete. Not official club rides (but organised via a club WhatsApp group) and no club shirts to be worn. British Cycling (the national body) and the club I'm a member of have explicitly forbidden club rides.

Then one of our members, who is a nurse, posted this:

I don’t wish to offend anyone but whilst this pandemic continues I am removing myself from this group. As many of you may know I am currently working my arse off on the frontline right now trying to fight a loosing battle. I’m having to put my life on the line because people will not stay home and isolate. It saddens me to see that people on this group are trying to ride miles just so you can wave at each other and effectively inhale each other’s breath. My family needs me to stay alive much like yours but I have to be taking this risk! You do not! Staying at home is the one thing in the world I would absolutely be loving to do right now, I’d love to be bored! I have zipped up 8 body bags this week, don’t let me be zipping up yours! Please don’t take risks! I send my love to you all and look forward to rejoining and riding with the group after this is all over xx

For me, this exemplifies why we need to stick to the SPIRIT, not just the letter of the rules.

FWIW, I've only been doing solo rides or occasionally with swmbo, and the mounted policeman I chatted to a couple of days ago said that was fine.

[Ray P]

Just to lighten things up a little, the supermarket queue;

[Ali Tait]

There is another side of the coin - those of us that are being told to go to work, on projects most people would not consider essential. I'm currently on a cable laying project near Northwich - the cables will be for a forthcoming waste burning power station. I really don't see how this is essential. However there may be consequences for my continued employment if I refuse.

All this appears endemic within the construction industry, and there are a great many questions being asked as to why people are being put at needless risk.

Currently I don't see I have any real choice if I wish to continue earning a living, but I see not reason whatsoever that this project could not be put on hold. I have many colleagues in the same predicament.

It's not just working - there's the fact that I'm having to stay in accommodation and go shopping daily just to eat.

[pre65]

Then one of our members, who is a nurse, posted this:

I don’t wish to offend anyone but whilst this pandemic continues I am removing myself from this group. As many of you may know I am currently working my arse off on the frontline right now trying to fight a loosing battle. I’m having to put my life on the line because people will not stay home and isolate. It saddens me to see that people on this group are trying to ride miles just so you can wave at each other and effectively inhale each other’s breath. My family needs me to stay alive much like yours but I have to be taking this risk! You do not! Staying at home is the one thing in the world I would absolutely be loving to do right now, I’d love to be bored! I have zipped up 8 body bags this week, don’t let me be zipping up yours! Please don’t take risks! I send my love to you all and look forward to rejoining and riding with the group after this is all over xx

For me, this exemplifies why we need to stick to the SPIRIT, not just the letter of the rules.

That note brought tears to my eyes, and reinforced my opinion that people like John are just not understanding why most of us are staying at home.

I hope Johns children and grandchildren don't perpetuate what Dad seems to think is OK. What an example to set.