Owston '19 what are you bringing
#61 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
#62 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
Sounds like a debate for the Friday Night Seminar.
#63 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
Wasn’t that the point of ducking though, to find out?Nick wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 2:50 pmNeither, for that to be the case him being a witch would have to be the result of some quantum event, its not, he either is or isn't. The reason the cat in the box is both alive and dead is not because its in a box, its because its in a box with poison that may or may not be released by the decay of a radioactive source.
Of course his witchness is only unknowable to those on the bank if it was unknown before he entered the water. Otherwise, they would know.
If you drowned you weren’t.
#64 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
I've a nagging little itch about this...your assertionNick wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 2:50 pm
Neither, for that to be the case him being a witch would have to be the result of some quantum event, its not, he either is or isn't. The reason the cat in the box is both alive and dead is not because its in a box, its because its in a box with poison that may or may not be released by the decay of a radioactive source.
Of course his witchness is only unknowable to those on the bank if it was unknown before he entered the water. Otherwise, they would know.
is causing me second thoughts.The reason the cat in the box is both alive and dead is not because its in a box
From the predicate, the reason the cat in the box is both alive and dead is because it is plainly in the box. If it were not in the box we would know if it were alive or dead.
and further....if the water were icy cold and the witch suffered a heart attack going in then she would be pulled out dead, ergo not a witch, which she was(a witch) when she went in. I'm of the strong opinion that this test is fallible.
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be
#65 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
Do witches have heart attacks?
#66 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
Well, no, the reason we don't know if its alive or dead is because we can't observe it. The reason its both alive and dead at the same time is because of the decay or not of the radioactive source. The cat could be next door, in a train toilet, or we could be in the box and the cat outside. All it takes to be both alive and dead is a quantum event and lack of observation.From the predicate, the reason the cat in the box is both alive and dead is because it is plainly in the box. If it were not in the box we would know if it were alive or dead.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
#67 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
Again no, the test is if he/she drowns or not, not if he/she happens to die while in the water. It seems that while witches can die, they can't die of drowning. So in fact that if the test resulted in a death, then we would not be certain if the death was due to drowning (is not a witch) or some other cause (may or may not be a witch). So a truth table will show that all the immersion is water can show for certain is that he/she is a witch, it can't show with certainty not a witch.ergo not a witch
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
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#68 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
All of you's, pfffffffffffftttttttttttttt! I reckon you're all making this up as you go along and not taking this at all seriously.
Look, let analyse this properly OK Ali's wet, I've got a dry pen.
Look, let analyse this properly OK Ali's wet, I've got a dry pen.
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
#69 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
ok, I'll concede that Ali is wet, I don't have aproblem with that....but I'm still cogitating about Nick's statement that the reason the cat is both alive and dead is not because it's in a box....I think it is......the predicate logic dictates that it must be in the box AND sharing the box with the poison..cant have one without the other and the logic doesn't hold if you take the box out of the statement. It's moving the goal posts if you want to replace the box with next door or a train toilet...that's just how Dr Who get's out of all his scrapes.......
I need more Greene King Abbot to get on top of this one philosophically....
As I won't make the Friday night seminar can I ask that if there's a spare 5 minutes the team consider the tree in the forest, and let me know the answer on Saturday.
I need more Greene King Abbot to get on top of this one philosophically....
As I won't make the Friday night seminar can I ask that if there's a spare 5 minutes the team consider the tree in the forest, and let me know the answer on Saturday.
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be
#70 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
That’ll have been cut down to make the ducking stool.
#71 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
That's just (a manifestation of the language the logic is expressed in) and (the lack of brackets). We can change the set-up. Radioactive source and detector in Japan in a tin can. Cable from the detector to poison dispenser goes via the internet to a closed room with the poison and the cat. As long as the state of the poison dispenser or the signal driving it is not observed then the cat is both alive and dead. Its just about equivalent to quantum key distribution..the predicate logic dictates that it must be in the box AND sharing the box with the poison.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
#72 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
But which one? A forest suggests more than one tree.the tree in the forest
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
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#73 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
Not so. When does a forest stop being a forest - reducto and absurdum suggests that if you remove trees, each time you remove a tree you still have a forest. There are over 800 definitions of what constitutes a "forest". Wikipedia suggests:
"Although a forest is usually defined by the presence of trees, under many definitions an area completely lacking trees may still be considered a forest if it grew trees in the past, will grow trees in the future,[9] or was legally designated as a forest regardless of vegetation type"
So a forest may be defined as an area with "n" trees, where n varies between 0 and ∞.
e.g. Kelp forests have no trees, only algae.
Vivitur ingenio, caetera mortis erunt
#74 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
When does a forest become a wood?
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#75 Re: Owston '19 what are you bringing
A forest becomes wood when its in B+Q.
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"