The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

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steve s
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#286 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by steve s »

Nice one Dave... I've got bike lift envy actually.. I've been lusting after one these last 18 months...
I've been side tracked these last couple of months with quite a few vintage push bikes... but those pics have set me off again.
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#287 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Baggy Trousers »

Dave the bass wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:08 pm I believe it termed a 'built-up crankshaft' in this example if that's what you mean? The big end bush and all bearings are fine thankfully. I've split the crankcases to clean out the horrible mucky oil that was living in the oil compartment.
I've never understood Enfield's wet dry sump system.

Is it possible to incorporate a remote filter which would allow you to use a semi-detergent oil and thus avoid the the dreaded gungies? Fitted them to my bikes with one exception (where it wasn't possible) and now have clean innards and only one oil change per year. Hitchcocks might have such a system.
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#288 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Baggy Trousers »

steve s wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:42 pm Nice one Dave... I've got bike lift envy actually.. I've been lusting after one these last 18 months...
I've been side tracked these last couple of months with quite a few vintage push bikes... but those pics have set me off again.
Get one! The Chinese lifts are really not expensive and work quite satisfactorily. After a week you'll wonder how you ever managed without one. :bounce:
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Dave the bass
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#289 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Dave the bass »

Baggy Trousers wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:20 am
I've never understood Enfield's wet dry sump system.

Is it possible to incorporate a remote filter which would allow you to use a semi-detergent oil and thus avoid the the dreaded gungies? Fitted them to my bikes with one exception (where it wasn't possible) and now have clean innards and only one oil change per year. Hitchcocks might have such a system.
Well, there is an oil filter located in the bottom of the timing chest, a circular felt type. H's make and sell a few things to help the lubrication system but I've yet to see a remote filter kit for any Bullet. The only place I can think of to tap into the oil feed is the external rocker feed pipe but that would only be functioning on the oil after its been fed to the big end and scavenged from the crankcase via the return pump.

It'd take some nifty engineering to interrupt the big end oil feed at the feed plug itself, deffo one for the grown ups.
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#290 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Mike H »

I like the poster on the door! :lol:

For Mark, yes crank is also a flywheel, I doubt there's another seperate one, altho there might also be a generator rotor? Adds a bit more mass.
 
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#291 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Baggy Trousers »

Dave the bass wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:47 am
Baggy Trousers wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:20 am
I've never understood Enfield's wet dry sump system.

Is it possible to incorporate a remote filter which would allow you to use a semi-detergent oil and thus avoid the the dreaded gungies? Fitted them to my bikes with one exception (where it wasn't possible) and now have clean innards and only one oil change per year. Hitchcocks might have such a system.
Well, there is an oil filter located in the bottom of the timing chest, a circular felt type. H's make and sell a few things to help the lubrication system but I've yet to see a remote filter kit for any Bullet. The only place I can think of to tap into the oil feed is the external rocker feed pipe but that would only be functioning on the oil after its been fed to the big end and scavenged from the crankcase via the return pump.

It'd take some nifty engineering to interrupt the big end oil feed at the feed plug itself, deffo one for the grown ups.
Not sure about Japanese and modern stuff but all old bikes with non-friction bearings (as in Enfield) have the modern filter fitted in the return line as there is no means of incorporating it on the supply side as you have mentioned. This isn't important anyway. However, if you have a felt cartridge or washable element, you should not need any supplementary filtration. The only downside of the very convenient spin-on arrangement is having to wait for the canister to fill before feed to the valve gear is resumed, but with a decent scavenge pump, this doesn't take long.
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#292 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Baggy Trousers »

Mike H wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:26 pm I like the poster on the door! :lol:

For Mark, yes crank is also a flywheel, I doubt there's another seperate one, altho there might also be a generator rotor? Adds a bit more mass.
As dtb's photos show, there are two separate flywheels which are joined by the crankpin which has tapered ends. The large nuts seen are to hold the elements together after assembly. The built-up flywheel is needed to allow the two halves to be separated in order to change/fit the big end bearing and conrod. They are then precision aligned and forced together in a powerful press. This is not usually a DIY job.
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#293 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Mike H »

Yep I knew that. :D
 
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Dave the bass
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#294 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Dave the bass »

Baggy Trousers wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:02 pm This is not usually a DIY job.
Not 'arf! I don't plan on splitting the actual crank, the big end bush shows no sign of vertical play at any part of the crank rotation. I 'think its been looked at by a previous custodian, there's some hefty cold chisel marks on the larger fixings around the bike, like here worryingly .... :shock:
Image

When I separated the crankcases I found what I think are flywheel alignment marks...
Image
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#295 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Mike H »

Lot better condition than my Bantam's one, which interestingly looked virtually identical, except the hollows in the flywheels were filled in with steel plates, 'cause it's a 2-stroke. Unfortunately one had come adrift (they were only held on by centre-punch 'dimples') and had been scraping the inside of the c/case so all the bearings were totally fooked, cos of all the aluminium swarf flying around. Had to send the crank away for the big end to be rebuilt. It also needed a rebore and new piston etc. Went like sh!t after that. Well comparatively speaking - still only 4.7 hp :D
 
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#296 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Baggy Trousers »

Dave the bass wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:11 pm
Baggy Trousers wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:02 pm This is not usually a DIY job.
Not 'arf! I don't plan on splitting the actual crank, the big end bush shows no sign of vertical play at any part of the crank rotation. I 'think its been looked at by a previous custodian, there's some hefty cold chisel marks on the larger fixings around the bike, like here worryingly .... :shock:
I shouldn't worry about the chisel marks - I've seen much worse. For the small cost of a socket, this damage could have been avoided but the usual excuse in the past has been "I couldn't afford it. If I had that sort of money, I'd be driving a car!"

I suspect that what appear to be timing marks are just scribed lines indicating some datum. As far as I'm able to remember, not being as conversant with Enfields as I am with some other makes, the crankpin has a tapered fit into the flywheels and alignment is established by the Woodruff keys fitted at each end. It is a belt and braces approach with the half-nuts just being the icing on the cake. However, I do wonder how the securing screw was able to coincide with the nut flats?
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#297 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Nick »

I shouldn't worry about the chisel marks - I've seen much worse. For the small cost of a socket, this damage could have been avoided but the usual excuse in the past has been "I couldn't afford it. If I had that sort of money, I'd be driving a car!"
My father was a tool maker and a big fan of the cold chisel. It may well have been the standard last stage of tightening up that crank bolt. Good luck applying much torque with a socket without twisting the crank alignment.
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#298 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Ant »

That indent may have been done to the nut to keep it exactly in that position at that specific torque. The crank will have been put together on a jig so it was properly aligned and when set been whacked to deform the 2 pices so that if the nut started to wind it had to crack off the deformed metal of the nut and the flywheel.

I've seen similar marks before on old factory machinery, it's far too specific to be damage, it looks intentional to me.
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#299 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by ed »

I'm with Nick on this....

as a naive amateur I remember being shown how to bring a turret nut around to line up with a split pin keeper...I was told you use sharp force(cold chisel) because a socket just wont cut it.....

is this the same principal?
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#300 Re: The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

Post by Baggy Trousers »

Nick wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:18 am
I shouldn't worry about the chisel marks - I've seen much worse. For the small cost of a socket, this damage could have been avoided but the usual excuse in the past has been "I couldn't afford it. If I had that sort of money, I'd be driving a car!"
My father was a tool maker and a big fan of the cold chisel. It may well have been the standard last stage of tightening up that crank bolt. Good luck applying much torque with a socket without twisting the crank alignment.
If the crankpin end journals mate properly, (i.e. they are lapped together), the taper when pulled up to only a moderate degree will resist any twisting. The crankpin half-nuts are tightened in unison so that torque applied to one nut will be resisted to the same degree by the other nut; very little, if any, torque is absorbed by the pin/flywheel assembly. In any event, the relationship of the pin and the two flywheels is maintained by the keys - that's why they are there. What value of torsional resistance are you expecting anyway? The crankpin nuts are only a security feature - they are not fundamental to the integrity of the big end/crankpin/flywheel assembly. Had that been the case, full nuts or some other device would have been employed. I have no knowledge of the thread pitch nor module form of the threads involved here but given that theoretical loadings have been reduced by some 50%, I doubt that a tightening torque of more than 20 lbf/ft (30 gk/m to younger people) would be required.

Proper alignment of castellated nuts should be achieved by filing/machining the required amount of material from the nut face.
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