BNC v RCA

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Bigman80
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#1 BNC v RCA

Post by Bigman80 »

Hi all,

I am considering how to get a really secure connection between components. I have read BNC connectors are pretty good and used in testing gear. Has anyone used them? And brand recommended? Easy to wire?

Cheers

Oliver.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#2 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Don't waste your time. If you really want a better connection, in music as well as security of fit then you need SMA but it limits the cable you can use to the ones designed for it, which just happen to be excellent as well.
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#3 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Bigman80 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:31 pm Don't waste your time. If you really want a better connection, in music as well as security of fit then you need SMA but it limits the cable you can use to the ones designed for it, which just happen to be excellent as well.
Oh, not heard of that! I'll google it. Thanks for the tip.

What cable is used with them?
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#4 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Best to buy them with the cables already fitted. None of your rip-off hifi shops just look at RS and Farnell for the made up cables. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/cables-wi ... 11&sra=oss I have used both RG402 and RG316 both excellent. Panel sockets on another page just search
Last edited by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bigman80
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#5 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Bigman80 »

Cheers doc, sorry to harrass you! Is there a type you'd recommend?

ignore that, i missed the link lol
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#6 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

I did a whole investigation in the early 90's of all available sockets and SMA was the clear sonic winner. I then spent a couple of years trying to convince people to try it on our Mk1 statement gear (the chrome stuff) with little success - too much bullshit holding the industry down and my name wasn't IvorT. I gave up, but still use RG316 with phonos as believe it or not decent ones came second best on the list, better than XLR, BNC, Din (by an enormous margin) and couple of other less known variants.

Don't be fooled by the bullshit phonos, as the likes of Marco try to promote, all you do largely is waste your money. You can get good ones for a couple of quid.
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#7 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Bigman80 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:14 pm I did a whole investigation in the early 90's of all available sockets and SMA was the clear sonic winner. I then spent a couple of years trying to convince people to try it on our Mk1 statement gear (the chrome stuff) with little success - too much bullshit holding the industry down and my name wasn't IvorT. I gave up, but still use RG316 with phonos as believe it or not decent ones came second best on the list, better than XLR, BNC, Din (by an enormous margin) and couple of other less known variants.

Don't be fooled by the bullshit phonos, as the likes of Marco try to promote, all you do largely is waste your money. You can get good ones for a couple of quid.
I've noticed, mainly due to my box swapping tendencies, that almost no two sets of RCA's are the same. My usually snug connections are just pulling out without resistance which led me here. I will definitly look into these connectors and cables. Cheers doc. Good info.
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#8 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Bigman80 »

Ok, bought a couple of meters I'll try with phonostage first. RG316.
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#9 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

NVA calls RG316 with RCA phonos Sound Cord. But you must remember RG316 is a generic cable made by dozens of companies including now in China. RG is a USA government military spec requirement, none of these cables are designed for audio. Back in the 90's I tried the cable from about 6 USA companies (still the best) and that is what I buy and still use. From this came SSC (super sound cord), SSPmk2 (super sound pipe) and you can read at HFS how much better the cables can be made. The original mk1 SSP was RG402, but had a habit of breaking in use as it is semi rigid cable that breaks the connections if you twist it, unless you use SMA connections.
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#10 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Bigman80 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:55 pm NVA calls RG316 with RCA phonos Sound Cord. But you must remember RG316 is a generic cable made by dozens of companies including now in China. RG is a USA government military spec requirement, none of these cables are designed for audio. Back in the 90's I tried the cable from about 6 USA companies (still the best) and that is what I buy and still use. From this came SSC (super sound cord), SSPmk2 (super sound pipe) and you can read at HFS how much better the cables can be made. The original mk1 SSP was RG402, but had a habit of breaking in use as it is semi rigid cable that breaks the connections if you twist it, unless you use SMA connections.
I can't imagine what I bought is the US version. It's just a generic i presume. If promising, I'll look into better stuff. Not bad pricing on the sound chord! Would they beat my Klotz/MSAudio combo? Might have to find out.
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#11 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by jack »

You will have seen SMA connectors on wireless routers and access points - they are the small RF screw connectors used for the aerials.

There are two types: SMA (used for most stuff) and RP-SMA (used for WiFi aerials). RP-SMA has the male and female parts reversed with respect to SMA (RP means Reverse Polarity), so RP-SMA and SMA connectors cannot mate.

As DHD says, use ready made up cables - don't try to make them up yourself - they are small and fiddly to assemble and need special tools to crimp them and you must use the right wire.

Anybody who's worked in RF will use them all the time - I use them in some of my IoT data logger base stations but only for RF MMCX to RP-SMA pigtails.

I suspect the story here is really about the cable used as SMA connectors are standard 50ohm but designed to have the lowest possible insertion loss at RF (order of a few hundredths of a dB) - at AF the loss will probably be too low to measure. The cable is where the capacitance and inductance lives - I mostly use RG316/U - it's a but more pricy than RG174 and has a fractionally lower loss (1dB difference at 1GHz). RG316 uses a PTFE dielectric and FEP (Teflon) jacket, whereas RG174 uses a polyethylene dielectric and PVC jacket. "RG" is short for "Radio Grade". For really hostile conditions you can use RG188 but it's more lossy. Not important here, but RG316 is an "interior" cable; if you want a cable to survive a lot of UV, then you need RG174 or 188.

I have used them in the past to connect audio components but only because I have the ability & tools to make them up plus drums of cable.

Plus RG316 looks pretty neat :)
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#12 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Bigman80 »

jack wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:34 am You will have seen SMA connectors on wireless routers and access points - they are the small RF screw connectors used for the aerials.

There are two types: SMA (used for most stuff) and RP-SMA (used for WiFi aerials). RP-SMA has the male and female parts reversed with respect to SMA (RP means Reverse Polarity), so RP-SMA and SMA connectors cannot mate.

As DHD says, use ready made up cables - don't try to make them up yourself - they are small and fiddly to assemble and need special tools to crimp them and you must use the right wire.

Anybody who's worked in RF will use them all the time - I use them in some of my IoT data logger base stations but only for RF MMCX to RP-SMA pigtails.

I suspect the story here is really about the cable used as SMA connectors are standard 50ohm but designed to have the lowest possible insertion loss at RF (order of a few hundredths of a dB) - at AF the loss will probably be too low to measure. The cable is where the capacitance and inductance lives - I mostly use RG316/U - it's a but more pricy than RG174 and has a fractionally lower loss (1dB difference at 1GHz). RG316 uses a PTFE dielectric and FEP (Teflon) jacket, whereas RG174 uses a polyethylene dielectric and PVC jacket. "RG" is short for "Radio Grade". For really hostile conditions you can use RG188 but it's more lossy. Not important here, but RG316 is an "interior" cable; if you want a cable to survive a lot of UV, then you need RG174 or 188.

I have used them in the past to connect audio components but only because I have the ability & tools to make them up plus drums of cable.

Plus RG316 looks pretty neat :)

Wow, thanks for the detail. I'll definitely give it a go. Just need to see how the sockets can be integrated into my setup. Not a lot of room in my phonostage where the rcas are.
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#13 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by jack »

Bigman80 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:02 amWow, thanks for the detail. I'll definitely give it a go. Just need to see how the sockets can be integrated into my setup. Not a lot of room in my phonostage where the rcas are.
Small point - genuine RG316/U is not cheap - the purity of the materials used must be very high and the required manufacturing tolerances are very tight. If you damage or kink it, it's dead.

Remember this is RF cable designed for use between 1GHz & 18GHz... Some of the cheap SMA cables may *look* like RG316, but might not necessarily BE RG316. It's about $1/mtr on Banggood and about $1.50/mtr on eBay. From Farnell (known to be the real deal stuff), it's $2.60/mtr in 100mtr reels. Make of that what you will...

Bearing in mind that we're operating some 4 orders of magnitude lower than the lowest rated frequency for this stuff, you might argue that genuine or fake, it doesn't matter.

But it does, as if it's fake, why bother? Just use some satellite TV coax...
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#14 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Blimey Jack it is really good to find someone with *real* expertise instead or copy and paste repeated forum bullshit. I have been through years of insult on forums about us using RF cables. Even copiers like Brian at AoS who then changed the cable and lost the plot, and a couple of commercial copiers. Chord Cable "something solid" RG402 or 405, Rothwell with RG316.

Even the shite RG316 is better than most cable you are offered, but the good stuff is special. I have not had problems with damage as the dialectic seems to spring back when compressed. I have found other cable which is massively good and massively expensive using Gore-Tex dielectric and silver foil screen that if you just accidently tread on it has gone, so is not really logically usable by us for hi-fi unless armoured, and then even just component reel cost is £thousands.
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#15 Re: BNC v RCA

Post by Bigman80 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:31 am Blimey Jack it is really good to find someone with *real* expertise instead or copy and paste repeated forum bullshit. I have been through years of insult on forums about us using RF cables. Even copiers like Brian at AoS who then changed the cable and lost the plot, and a couple of commercial copiers. Chord Cable "something solid" RG402 or 405, Rothwell with RG316.

Even the shite RG316 is better than most cable you are offered, but the good stuff is special. I have not had problems with damage as the dialectic seems to spring back when compressed. I have found other cable which is massively good and massively expensive using Gore-Tex dielectric and silver foil screen that if you just accidently tread on it has gone, so is not really logically usable by us for hi-fi unless armoured, and then even just component reel cost is £thousands.
Is there a stranded core version of these cables? I'm positive i have some wired up to MSAudio plugs.
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