Phono bake-off

[ed]

but further....

I found this interesting, particularly as we don't see the legalese in the argument very often

http://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_index.php

coincidence?

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

That is complete bollocks to try and stop people hearing difference, not to help the process. Under that level of stupidity I doubt if I would know which way is up.

[Daniel Quinn]

Ok . Let's suppose nick deliberately ducks up his phono stage . Anybody think thier subconscious will tell them it's sounds okay .

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Let me try and understand this idiocy. Are we saying nobody can make a decision on what hi-fi to buy unless it is double blinded, we are incapable of just using music to make choices unless we kill all the other senses, including common sense.

Ludicrous and just deserves to be laughed at. I can tell you as I know how this process occurred, it is not done to help you, it is done to try and stop people hearing differences so people choose on specs and reputation. It was a process invented by the objectivists in the 1970's to try and counter subjective reviewing and wrest control of the industry back from people making their own decisions and not just buying on specs and name. I was there when it happened and one of the driving voices behind it was Quad. It gained some momentum and acceptance and is still current thought behind the feeling of people scared of their own ears. They even argue that it is the opposite, until you actually partake in it then you know what a farce it is. If you do enough of it some people are capable of being as perceptive as being as comfortable with choices made in their own home on their own system with their own music, EVERYTHING that takes you away from that takes away more of more your perceptive ability, until under full double blind with strange equipment and a strange room and strange music crashes all ability to choose - exactly what they want.

[Cressy Snr]

You can use science to build equipment.
You CANNOT apply science to listening to music through audio equipment.
Blind testing has to be the stupidest concept I have ever come across.

[andrew Ivimey]

Hmmmmmmmm you can you know and it isnt, surely but each to one' s own I suppose.

[ed]

You can use science to build equipment.
You CANNOT apply science to listening to music through audio equipment.
Blind testing has to be the stupidest concept I have ever come across.

I say, steady on old boy....
Is it not still used by all the drug research companies......

did you mean to say blind testing might be the stupidest concept you have ever come across when applied to audio testing?

further..as posts overlapped ... I'm deffo with Andrew on this one.

[Nick]

You CANNOT apply science to listening to music through audio equipment.

Though I will suggest for the phono comparisons we try and get a level volume setting by playing a test tone and adjusting the gain to voltage on the speakers. There is likely to be some differences in gain between the systems. It will only take 30 seconds for each stage. Also at the same time worth checking its still in phase and L/R hasn't been swapped around.

[Cressy Snr]

did you mean to say blind testing might be the stupidest concept you have ever come across when applied to audio testing?

Yes.

[cressy]

Who cares? Thought it was just supposed to be abit of fun.......
(ducks for cover)

[IslandPink]

Apparently not - it's going to be much more serious philosophical confrontation

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Can someone tell me what drug research has to do with listening to music and hi-fi. Though back in the day a strong Purple Haze had an almost blinding effect, and did put a different perspective on the music.

[iansr]

There's some serious uninformed bollocks being posted here. Here's a clue. Hands up those people who think that when called upon to make a rational decision the result is entirely based on logic?

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

If you mean me -"uninformed bollocks" my arse! what you are getting is the result of over 40 years experience of doing it and trying to explain how daft it is since this stupidity raised it head in the industry.

I have single blinded, double blinded, and on one daft occasion someone called it triple blind. I think that is when no one knows what is going on.

[Cressy Snr]

There's some serious uninformed bollocks being posted here. Here's a clue. Hands up those people who think that when called upon to make a rational decision the result is entirely based on logic?

What has logic got to do with art?

What has appreciation of hi-fidelity music reproduction got to do with science?

Since when is it rational to prefer one type of presentation over another?

Art/Music reproduction cannot be reduced to numbers and measurement, when the sound coming out of it is being listened to by human beings. The heart rules the decisions, not the egoic mind.

There's no group of people quite as bad audiophiles except maybe teachers, for making a simple job ten times harder than it needs to be.

Why turn a phono stage comparison into a bureaucratic nightmare? Why try to intellectualise the process out of existence?

Bring the phono stages set your levels and just bloody listen to them. Let your hearts be your guide?