Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:47 pm
They are hobbyists. I gave the definition are you challenging it. An artisan is making your living at least in part from your work. Originally that was patronism, often tied to a Lord of some sort, that slowly moved to financial and then we had the industrial revolution and capitalism.
Ummm. An artisan is simply a skilled craftsmen who makes stuff, typically with their hands. Artisan and craftsman are synonyms.
I'm not sure that there is any "professional" requirement at all - one can be an artisan and an amateur/hobbyist - the terms are not mutually exclusive.
Did you read that Wikipedia link you posted?
Wikipedia wrote:An artisan (from French: artisan, Italian: artigiano) is a skilled craft worker who makes or creates things by hand...
Last edited by jack on Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Greg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:43 pm
I think I got what you were getting at, Ray. Yes, plenty of artisans, getting more artisany as the night wears on
Yes, I was actually intending the double-entendre Greg...
So a majority of or significant minority of members here sell their items they make to other people do they - I think not - from what I see it is a very small minority. Sorry that you are so confused, but for the sake of accuracy and to help communication I think we shouldn't invent new definitions for words.
And yes it is part of the definition to have your living made by your work. If you have any understanding of history originally they were serfs, but some because of their skills became freemen, who travelled the country with their skills, originally in the castle building explosion started by the Normans. Craft skills of carpentry and stone mason were much sort after and well paid.
I think you may be confusing the term artisan with the term artist, an artist is not an artisan. An artist often does work for the pleasure of it and someone just may buy it, where as an artisan produces a product or his time for his skills for which he is paid. How would they live otherwise. In history there were many skilled amateurs who made or did things for the love of it, or for their health, many many examples including Kings. BUT we will just look at one, Churchill, he was very skilled at brick laying and stone walling but he would never be called an artisan he would be called a skilled amateur. So please stop mixing up the terms. That is unless you are doing it deliberately as yet another way to create conflict, if so some of you really are worse than school children - artisans, not with that childish behaviour.
Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:14 pmSo a majority of or significant minority of members here sell their items they make to other people do they - I think not - from what I see...
Okay well after the sun went down I've been enjoying a subtley delicious Cote du Rhone, which can't be wrong but I find myself agreeing with Dr B's definition of 'artisan' but otoh why on earth has this gone on for so long?
Can't we just move on to something more interesting? W hope really cares....
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
ed wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:53 pm
It occurs to me that audio talk is 10 years old in 10 days time...
I would like to mark the passing by acknowledging the benefit this forum has been to audio/electronic learning over that time. I would like to think it's probably the foremost place for real info dissemination and useful research amongst the uk audio forums.
minimum bullshit, maximum information
well done to everyone
Well said Ed
Thanks Nick for keeping this place going and putting up with us all
I haven't been an active member for the last few years, but hoping to start contributing again soon. Over the last few weeks I've been reading a lot of the project threads, and I agree with what you say Ed - the signal to noise ratio on here is so much higher than other places, IMO
I shall raise a glass in celebration of the anniversary in a few days time
Just back from Oman - not much decent wine available there. Not many decent restaurants either, though we had a few stunning days en famile at the Alila on Jabal Akhdar which has a truly first rate kitchen & brigade - easily comparable with anything I've had the pleasure of sampling before, including a goodly number of Michlen-starred eateries worldwide.
just to be clear, I don't, nor do a lot of dictionaries...
Most I can find either says directly or infers that the skilled work is done for sale. By definition I would say any definition that includes the word worker is suggesting that is a product for sale.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
If you'e a worker you normally, though not always, throughout time, get paid for your time, work and produce. A worker might or may not get paid much. Marx wrote long and is still relevant today, if you look up his notion of value or more particularly 'surplus value' which is something like the value that is ripped off by the capitalist entrepreneur you'll get the idea. An artisan is a worker and this word harps back to pre industrial times when, if you didn't work you starved.
A few of us make and sell stuff. This could be termed artisan product. Most of us just spend an awful lot making things things we'd never sell, for a variety of reasons. This is a hobby, possibly artistry.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
Yes, plenty of artisans, getting more artisany as the night wears on 
