Yorkshire Hi-Fi Club

[shane]

Phil does it too, but he never used to here until you two turned up.

Well actually he did, anytime I mentioned Apple Inc, Apple Music, or the Mac; even if I was being critical of the firm and its products.
But I think we reached an understanding on that situation.
I keep my gob shut about Apple and he doesn't take the piss.
I've been censored

True. I'd forgotten that, but at least you've reached a mutual cease-fire. That doesn't seem likely to happen with this lot.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

My personal view is that it's the excelleration factor that makes a musical speaker
the trouble is they are impossible to implement without some kind of mechanical or electrical crossover
In the 90's I went from traditional speakers [ns1000's] to full range back horns,,, many of us are still using various so called full range drivers
thanks to listening to other types of speaker I eventually concluded large drivers has no equal when it came to reproducing the lower end of the scale, wich is where I am now... Stuck with mutipal 1st order crossovers

I find this approach more musical [actually in a different leugue ] to the full range mechanical crossed overs drivers I still own
And I have quite a few drivers and speakers to compare to demonstrate why I came to my conclusions/ my view if any one would like to waste a day at my place ...

You can replace those bass unit and mid unit 1st order electronic crossovers with mechanical filters (cone doping) and be even less musically intrusive.

[steve s]

Please explain doc .. I thought I'd explored every angle?

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Shane it will stop when they stop. There is nothing I would prefer more that to not have to be involved in this, but every time I post they start off again nip nip nipping. I have the two worst Noddy and Greg on block, that has been a positive move. AND as I have said many times to no longer have any form of contact with Noddy (my forum stalker) would be fine by me. DQ has largely different motivations to me to think of them as arses, what he does is up to him we are not a gang like them.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Please explain doc .. I thought I'd explored every angle?

It is all explained in Doc Mods.

[Daniel Quinn]

[True. I'd forgotten that, but at least you've reached a mutual cease-fire. That doesn't seem likely to happen with this lot.
[/quote]

Patience , it is early days . Its analogous to dogs sniffing each other arses in an attempt to get to know one other, they don't do it for ever that would be weird.

[Nick]

they don't do it for ever that would be weird.

Actually they do, so they know who the other dog is and to check for any change in the other dog once they know who it is.

[steve s]

Doping may be the lesser of the evels,
but adding mass does affect the acceleration factor using proper dope is one thing but plasticote is quite a bit of mass I would suspect, I can see it's advantages

The very bottom end is covered by high efficiency pa drivers with quite a bit of mass already
I have quite a few 70's coated drivers Inc a pair of celestion 44's which are comparitivey very slow in the bass compared to what I'm using
But it's worth experimenting

[Mike H]

Another half dozen pages of extremely tedious slagging off - think I preferred it when there was only 4 posts a week

[ed]

Please explain doc .. I thought I'd explored every angle?

It is all explained in Doc Mods.

This is an interesting one for me....

Steve is pursuing I think, the acceleration(excelleration sic) factor in drivers. I hope I'm interpreting that correctly.

If you take a given driver with a known set of compliance figures and you dope it, then surely you are adding mass and if it is accelerating in it's optimum range then adding mass is going to upset it's acceleration ability.

From a personal viewpoint I am more interested in deceleration than acceleration although I admit they may be two sides of the same coin. I spent considerable time reseaching damping abilities trying to negate the effects of high output impedance inherent in SE valve circuits and mosfet output stages. I vainly attempted to demonstrate these effects at one owston with an F2 and a highly damped enclosure for a Markaudio driver. Balancing the Q and volume of a sealed box did come some way to negate the overswing(tech term with apologies to SHM) but it ceratinly wasn't the whole answer.

So after the waffle my question is: how can doping a cone possibly help acceleration and deceleration?

ps: I see you've already replied to this Steve...I will go back and read what's been written before I edit this...teach me to spend too much time replying

[shane]

Patience , it is early days . Its analogous to dogs sniffing each other arses in an attempt to get to know one other, they don't do it for ever that would be weird.

In that case I shall live in hope that peace will descend.
Meanwhile, this particular arse has probably talked enough...

[Nick]

From a personal viewpoint I am more interested in deceleration than acceleration although I admit they may be two sides of the same coin.

From the perspective of someone who has spent half a year looking at slew rate and the control of voltages and currents being pumped into and output mosfet gates I would say that they are the same, but not generally equal at any point in time. I should have paid more attention to what you were doing Mr Ed.

[steve s]

[quote=ed post_id=144805 time=1493210746 user_id=27

Steve is pursuing I think, the acceleration(excelleration sic) factor in drivers. I hope I'm interpreting that correctly.

[/quote]

Sort of ed,
My ideal speaker would be high in acceleration and completly self damped...
I could use solid state but I prefer the sound of British triodes, I would suspect that with the damping I have and a nearly self damped speaker I'm not to far from the ideal
But it is possible to have completely self damped driver with a few top end vintage drivers up to about 12"
And its those I use for the lower mids but with a simple inductor on them
I'm at quite an advantage as I put very little power through any of the drivers so the negative effects of the inductors are not as pronounced as I believe they could be



I'm in the sun on the beach next to the med, it's hard to see what I'm writing so please excuse grammar and spelling

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Doping may be the lesser of the evels,
but adding mass does affect the acceleration factor using proper dope is one thing but plasticote is quite a bit of mass I would suspect, I can see it's advantages

The very bottom end is covered by high efficiency pa drivers with quite a bit of mass already
I have quite a few 70's coated drivers Inc a pair of celestion 44's which are comparitivey very slow in the bass compared to what I'm using
But it's worth experimenting

Its not the same, coating and doping for production purposes or even for nice looking charts have little to do with using it as a crossover replacement. It takes some lateral thought. If you want to try it I will happily talk you through it, with any driver you wish to experiment with.

Initially I recommend people to experiment with cheap Chinese PA drivers as sold on ebay as to do it with a classic driver with value is daft if you are not clear about the benefits.

[steve s]

Thanks I may well take you up on that in a few weeks

I'm I right in thinking that adding just the right amount of mass will mechanically limit the fequeny response of the driver? Or is there more to it

... I would say that it's also changing the cones ability to reproduce the higher frequency too
Higher frequency requires the cones to break up and flex?