Yorkshire Hi-Fi Club

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

There seem to be lots of them so I suppose I better repeat - Noddy is blocked (same for Greg), I don't read his posts so cannot comment or reply, nor do I want to. So if directed at me you are wasting your time.

[Daniel Quinn]

But Richard, YOU have never listened to ANY of Scotts many designs, or Steves come to that, so how can YOU comment on the musicality (or not) of either ?

You'd soon be up in arms if I condemned NVA products without actually hearing them.

Your comparison is invalid

Logically -

if you believe ALL passive x-overs - mess up the sound as rd has described then it would not be necessary for you to hear them, it would be much the same understanding that walking out in front of an hgv travelling at 50mph will kill you . You do not have to do it to be secure in your knowledge.

[pre65]

So, Dennis or Richard, how would you react when you heard a speaker with a passive crossover and found you enjoyed the sound ?

What you have against crossovers is valid (probably) because you have yet to hear a musical one, not that they don't exist.

The lorry example is not valid in this context, but good try.

[Daniel Quinn]

Pre I will play with you , but I cannot speak for Richard .

how would you react when you heard a speaker with a passive crossover and found you enjoyed the sound ? - Honestly :

What you have against crossovers is valid (probably) because you have yet to hear a musical one, not that they don't exist - This is a bit like the black swan anecdote - Or Karl Popper falsification theory . Where do they exist ?

care to explain why the hgv analogy is incorrect ?

[pre65]

It's a matter of how you say it.

If you say "I have yet to hear a speaker with a passive crossover that sounds musical" then no-one should be critical.

But to suggest they don't exist is false because YOU have not heard every speaker on the planet with a passive crossover.

Black swan.

[Daniel Quinn]

Not sure you can accuse me of making dogmatic statements

Lets simplify matters

All crossovers are resistors , inductors and capacitors . What is it about this mythical speaker you are postulating , that will be different to the dozens I have heard and the dozen or so I have modified , that will mean the problem I perceive with these parts in the signal path , will disappear in the mythical speaker.

It is not possible to hear all speakers , but it is possible to draw sound conclusions in much the same way , that you can safely conclude being hit by a hgv at 50 mph will kill you .

[Scottmoose]

By which you are arguing that crossover frequency, crossover slope, the frequency, phase, polar and power responses, impedance load etc. of a loudspeaker system have no bearing upon the resulting sound.

I think I'll stick to reality.

[shane]

We have two examples of people building speakers projects here. One Moose, pages and pages of technical bullshit, boring and meaningless, no mention of music even of Pteula Clarark (sic). Always inflating himself up. The second Cressy Snr, no bullshit, just enough tech bollocks that is needed, loads and loads of music quotes. Always putting himself down.

I rest my case M'lud.

My reaction is not done to create conflict between them. It is done because I have two large red lines. EGO Rip-off bullshit marketing, and EGO stupid over complicated design. I will have my pops at both where ever and when ever I see them.

I tend to agree with you, and I certainly know which I prefer reading. I don't know enough to contradict Scott, and I've never heard any of his designs, but I do find that my eyes glaze over on some of his longer posts because I don't understand what he's on about. Also, I have a lot of sympathy with the idea that simpler is better. My problem is that it's now a bit like trying to hold a discussion when the conversation keeps being interrupted by a seven year old with a megaphone. We all know and respect yours and Daniel's (Dennis' ?) opinions, you don't need to keep ramming them down our throats. My Red Line is people who keep on banging on about other people in a derogatory manner until everyone's sick to death of it. You do it, Daniel does it, others do not. Phil does it too, but he never used to here until you two turned up.

[pre65]

It is not possible to hear all speakers , but it is possible to draw sound conclusions in much the same way , that you can safely conclude being hit by a hgv at 50 mph will kill you .

As you place such store by the above let's examine it a bit.

I agree that it would be
A) Unpleasant.
B) Likely to give one life threatening injuries.
C) Out of a 1,000 people who tried it 998 might die

But it's not an absolute, so the chance of you finding a speaker with a crossover that is musical is still a possibility.

[Daniel Quinn]

That is precisely my point and why I mentioned popper and falsification .

absolute truth is chimera . we must do the best we can .

[pre65]

absolute truth is chimera . we must do the best we can .

Silly me, I thought chimera was a TVR.

[Cressy Snr]

Phil does it too, but he never used to here until you two turned up.

Well actually he did, anytime I mentioned Apple Inc, Apple Music, or the Mac; even if I was being critical of the firm and its products.
But I think we reached an understanding on that situation.
I keep my gob shut about Apple and he doesn't take the piss.
I've been censored

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

He has also done it on every other forum I have joined including ones he wasn't a member of he followed me to them. Which is why I call it stalking.

[steve s]

My personal view is that it's the excelleration factor that makes a musical speaker
the trouble is they are impossible to implement without some kind of mechanical or electrical crossover
In the 90's I went from traditional speakers [ns1000's] to full range back horns,,, many of us are still using various so called full range drivers
thanks to listening to other types of speaker I eventually concluded large drivers has no equal when it came to reproducing the lower end of the scale, wich is where I am now... Stuck with mutipal 1st order crossovers

I find this approach more musical [actually in a different leugue ] to the full range mechanical crossed overs drivers I still own
And I have quite a few drivers and speakers to compare to demonstrate why I came to my conclusions/ my view if any one would like to waste a day at my place ...

[steve s]

My personal view is that it's the excelleration factor that makes a musical speaker
the trouble is they are impossible to implement without some kind of mechanical or electrical crossover
In the 90's I went from traditional speakers [ns1000's] to full range back horns,,, many of us are still using various so called full range drivers
thanks to listening to other types of speaker I eventually concluded large drivers has no equal when it came to reproducing the lower end of the scale, wich is where I am now... Stuck with mutipal 1st order crossovers

I find this approach more musical [actually in a different leugue ] to the full range mechanical crossed overs drivers I still own
And I have quite a few drivers and speakers to compare and demonstrate why I came to my conclusions/ view if any one would like to waste a day at my place ...