Audio Talk - what is it?

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

There seems to be distortion (from the usual parties) coming into the conversation. How can someone putting a point and asking for comment be someone thinking they are always right - cop out, and a poorly thought out form of dissing. Someone arguing a point with reasoned arguments is not ego, it is human interaction. Someone saying "you are wrong" and relying on their perceived Guru-dom to create agreement is entirely ego.

[pre65]

He cannot answer my points...

No, trust me, he could if he chose to.

Well said Ray.

Anyone who has the pleasure of knowing Andrew would realise that.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

At the turn of the century, I went to three Northern Soul allnighters. Two of them, one at the Ritz in Manchester starring the Originals, backed by Snake Davis and the Suspicions and the other at King's hall in Stoke on Trent were superb sounding. Old 60s soul on 7" vinyl is notoriously difficult to reproduce, but they had huge PA systems in those two venues that shook the floor, but did not sound loud unless you tried to have a conversation with the person next to you on the dancefloor. We stayed til 8am when the last records faded out.

Another one, that shall be nameless was so shrill it was hideous. Distortion was clearly audible as the system was not man enough for the big hall it was playing in. By 1 am we left and my ears were ringing for most of the day after. Two of the PAs were powerful, clear clean, PRaT in spades and the floor was full all night. The other was just LOUD, played much the same music as the other venues but the floor was half empty and lots of us repaired to the adjoining bar.

Don't know what that says but I know which I prefer.

A very good example of what I am talking about. It often happens you don't realise how powerful the sound is in energy (SPL) until you try to be heard. But as soon as it sounds loud you know it.

[Nick]

I think as often the case we are in danger of trying to argue across definitions. Unless we can agree what loudness is and if it is or isn't equal to sound pressure level then the exchange is doomed.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I think that was my point. When we say Oooo! that is loud it is either our ears distorting or the music distorting and they are not the same thing, and as it can be induced by a half watt radio I think that is self explanatory.

[Nick]

I think that was my point. When we say Oooo! that is loud it is either our ears distorting or the music distorting and they are not the same thing, and as it can be induced by a half watt radio I think that is self explanatory.

It may be self explanatory from your side of the definition, but it almost certainly wasn't from Andrews Audiologist perspective and that simple difference would (or could) have lead to a lengthy and increasingly acrimonious dialogue with both sides entirely justifiably regarding them self as correct. I know you are not stupid DrB, so I know you understand that.

Words are slippery, we may also say "Oooo! that thunder is loud", it may be neither our ears or reality distorting, it just may be a loud noise, where loud means a higher SPL than the current ambient our ears are experiencing.

If the same thunder happened while watching an open air Motorhead concert, we might not notice it at all.

But the point you are making which you know i agree with is that under normal hifi listening conditions we can very easily not notice high SPL if that level is not associated with distortion, And conversely, low absolute SPL can seem loud is the sound is accompanied by distortion.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

The difference is I have worked out why, to my acceptance. And that why explains a lot of things we struggle with understanding in audio. Why some things that shouldn't matter matter so much, and why thing that should matter a lot are largely ignored. It also explains why objectivism and objective design is largely bollocks apart from to ensure a working and safe product. The excellence of a product is entirely subjective selection.

This also shows why I react so strongly to the reams of never ending objective speaker design bollocks Moose was polluting our brains with. Speakers are safe and work before we even start the process.

The other fault is we are always analysing the equipment and not ourselves and how we react. It is like a cook not knowing how and why we react to flavours.

[Scottmoose]

Still keeping up your stream of closed-minded egotistical abuse I see Richard. Oh well, if it turns you on...

[Dave the bass]

This also shows why I react so strongly to the reams of never ending objective speaker design bollocks Moose was polluting our brains with. Speakers are safe and work before we even start the process.

"our brains"

I've mentioned it before Richard. Pay attention. Not 'our' brain, you have NO control or say over my thinking or opinion ok? You can offer an opinion, but , I'll say it again, Do not speak on my behalf.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Its genetic Dave you are programmed, that is what I am referring to, not individual choice. What some people call the unconscious mind.

Ah! wrong reference to mind, yes OK I really should just say mine, but I *believe* you have mostly been brainwashed to accept this load of bollocks. We tend to look at complication as a good thing and impressive, which is why it is used to impress. Carry on if that is your want, but stay open minded, even turn your mind around occasionally, you never know what you might see.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Still keeping up your stream of closed-minded egotistical abuse I see Richard. Oh well, if it turns you on...

You still can't see it, can't separate the words from the person. I abuse what you say and the reasoning behind it, not you. You are probably a really nice chap for all I know.

[Nick]

We tend to look at complication as a good thing and impressive,

I know I don't, and I know that just about anyone whose view I have respect for doesn’t.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

This also shows why I react so strongly to the reams of never ending objective speaker design bollocks Moose was polluting our brains with. Speakers are safe and work before we even start the process.

Should read

This also shows why I react so strongly to the reams of never ending objective speaker design bollocks Moose IMO was polluting our brains with. Speakers are safe and work before we even start the process.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

We tend to look at complication as a good thing and impressive,

I know I don't, and I know that just about anyone whose view I have respect for doesn’t.

I am sure not in your case as you seem to have balanced views, but the people who attacked me while defending the over complicated bollocks I was reacting to seem to be profuse here.

[Nick]

I think in general you will find they were defending Scott, not that I think he needs any help with that.