Nothing In Particular

[Daniel Quinn]

Nothing wrong with appraisals per se, everything wrong with capitalism in england

[ed]

wot no smiley DQ?

what about:

nothing wrong with appraisals per se, everything wrong with marxism in audio-talk

[Cressy Snr]

Appraisals should be outlawed, performance management should be consigned to the bin. Neither have any value whatsoever as the basic assumption behind all of this nonsense is that you are not doing your job.

But what about a theoretical worker that isnt doing his/her job? How does this handle that?

Old fashioned way Nick:
if you're a good manager, you know who is tossing it off and who isn't, or if you are the CEO, you hire people who aren't going to be idle b**tards in the first place.
If you have people not doing their jobs, you are a poor manager.

Appraisals are evidence gathering devices designed to build a case against idle fookers. That the rest of us who do our jobs have to put up with them is the bit that stinks.

[Nick]

But how do you know the "old fashioned way worked"?

"if you're a good manager, you know who is tossing it off and who isn't" But how do you know that? How do the managers find out?

"or if you are the CEO, you hire people", only works in a small company, once it gets bigger, HR takes over the job of hireing, so how do you kno wthey are doing the best job and not just picking at random, or folk who they like.

"idle b**tards in the first place", but people change, the top worker can become a idle bastard due to all sorts of problems.

[Mike H]

<INTERRUPTION>
    Found two muntjac deer in my garden this morning. Maybe should do something about the gap at the end of the back hedge.
</INTERRUPTION>

As you were ..


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[Mike H]

More:

Driver caught with shed balanced on car in Newton Abbot - BBC News


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[Cressy Snr]

Maybe I was way too naive during my working life from 1997 - 2005, and not sufficiently well versed in the ways of the staffroom.
All I know is that when I was left alone to do my job, I produced the goods, over and above.

IME people who are good at what they do, don't need micro managing and tend not to take kindly to it, especially creative types. The staff I managed certainly didn't need it, and as a manager, if someone's work falls off, you should be approachable and empathetic enough to be able to get them into a conversation about it and what can be done to help them, without having to have a "documented discussion" now there's a euphemism if ever there was one.

Trouble is, as Paul has said, our personality type only represents 4% of the population, so little I say is going to cut much ice with the other 96, who are incidentally, all wrong and the buggers don't listen

[Nick]

Trouble is, as Paul has said, our personality type only represents 4% of the population, so little I say is going to cut much ice with the other 96,

So lets just take what you have said as true, even so, having a way of doing something that only works with 4% of the population can at best be seen as a bit restrictive, What should we do with the other 96%? Agreed it may suck being the 4% if the system is designed for the 96%, but having a system designed for the 4% is not going to work out well if 96% of the people in it are destined to fail because of the system.

I would have thought it should be about what works best overall, not just for 4% or 1% or whatever (back to DQ's position again).

[Nick]

IME people who are good at what they do, don't need micro managing and tend not to take kindly to it, especially creative types.

Try working with or being a coder. I bet you didn’t have many arguments over if you should use a ball point or ink pen did you? Try telling an emacs guy to use vi and see what happens.

[Cressy Snr]

Trouble is, as Paul has said, our personality type only represents 4% of the population, so little I say is going to cut much ice with the other 96,

So lets just take what you have said as true, even so, having a way of doing something that only works with 4% of the population can at best be seen as a bit restrictive, What should we do with the other 96%? Agreed it may suck being the 4% if the system is designed for the 96%, but having a system designed for the 4% is not going to work out well if 96% of the people in it are destined to fail because of the system.

I would have thought it should be about what works best overall, not just for 4% or 1% or whatever (back to DQ's position again).

Yes, it is extremely difficult being one of the 4% and there are books that try to advise the INFP type on how to function in a world of "normal" people. We make great teachers, nurses, carers, but very very poor coppers or "accounters" for our actions. We just "do"
ask why and the answer is "because" And that is a red rag to a bull, to most folk.
We are OK in social situations......................in small doses.

[Neal]

I’ve always worked in the private sector mainly for American companies. I always looked forward to my appraisals, it was a measure as to how well I was doing and where I needed to improve. I always hated objectives though they are self defeating and become meaningless IMHO, if you are doing your job well to the satisfaction of your managers then they become unecessary....maybe it was the field I was in Technical Sales. I was so glad when the US company I was working for realised this and dropped them! Sales actually improved as we where no longer tied to an objective when our efforts where put to better use elsewhere....we became more flexible when the market forces changed.

[ed]

IME people who are good at what they do, don't need micro managing and tend not to take kindly to it, especially creative types.

Try working with or being a coder. I bet you didn’t have many arguments over if you should use a ball point or ink pen did you? Try telling an emacs guy to use vi and see what happens.

much easier for me to relate to than DQs socio political area.......IME the really good coders were absolutely pants at strategy and wouldn't go near management if their lives depended on it....they are the first to suffer from 'peter principle'. Which, I think, reinforces the idea that the more diversity of social types we have the better we are armed for survival....embrace the 4% rather than advocate an increase.....

I may reconsider this viewpoint...

[Nick]

IME the really good coders were absolutely pants at strategy and wouldn't go near management if their lives depended on it

The key is to make them understand that strategy and management is just a system to understand and to optimise, then it becomes just another problem to solve.

[ed]

I was trying to illustrate formulating a strategy rather than understanding one particular strategy.....

I beleive my strategy to illustrate failed miserably...sni etc etc

my bad!

[pre65]

After we got back from the coach trip Jean set off for Bradford.

So far she has been diverted twice, and is currently stuck on the M1 approaching J37.

When she clears that that is another hold up between J37 & J38.

Needless to say she is pissed off.