Output Trannies

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:15 pm

I'm getting round to thinking about some decent output trannies for the Mr Liang,and have been hunting up some prices.So far I've got-Sowter SE09's at 284+vat plus postage,AE copper amorph for 552+ vat,AE silvers at 723(gulp!)+vat and lastly the new Electra Print partial silvers at 322 quid.Obviously the Electra Prints look to be the option to go for on price,but I've never heard a pair before.Has anyone any thoughts/opinions on these?

Ta,Ali.

Post by **Nick** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:43 pm

I can't help thinking you might be better going with a bit more than 5k (looking at the SE09) load for the 845, depends if you need all the power.

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:24 pm

Hi Nick,
What value would you suggest? I'd gone for 5k as that's what John Caswell had measured the original trannies in the Mr Liang at when he replaced them with Sowters.He says this gave an excellent SW response.As for power,I guess I need as much as I can get for driving the ESLIII's.I know you are familiar with the liang circuit,so any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Regards.

Post by **Nick** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:21 pm

Well, 5k is what many seem to use for 845's, I can't speak from experence, as I havn't done it myself, but I read in many places, that whilst 5k is what would normally be done, and three time ra, going higher has benefits,

I drew 5k, 7k and 10k lines on the 845 curves, 5k does look a bit steep, 10k looks nice, but would benifit with starting with a bit more voltage. I can't help thinking 7k looks like a good compromise.

What do other folk think?

I have a pair of James JS-6157H here that belong to Paul B. I am sure he wouldn't mind you borrowing them to give it a try (though best you PM and ask him if you want to) they have 5k and 7k primaries so you could see what you think

Paul Barker · Post by **Paul Barker** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:15 am

Yes that's fine.

Though imnvho the 845 isn't "fixed" by choice of loadline. It is in it's very essense bland.

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:51 am

Thanks very much Paul,that would be much appreciated.Nick,assuming I go for the Electra Prints,would 7k,100mA,30w output be ok? or would it be better to up the mA rating a bit more? The only thing I'm not sure of is the nominal impedance of the eslIII's,perhaps you could advise Colin? There's no info on the site,though they sound good on an 8 ohm tap.I've not tried them on other taps,but given the generally wildly varying load of statics,perhaps a 6 ohm tap would be better?
Has anyone here any experience with Electa Prints?

pre65 · Post by **pre65** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:01 pm

Paul Barker wrote:Yes that's fine.

Though imnvho the 845 isn't "fixed" by choice of loadline. It is in it's very essense bland.

Hi Paul-it's interesting to hear you say the 845 is "bland" !

Of course i don't have anywhere near the experience of listening to as many and various valves as you have but i find my cobblered up 845 power stage,driven by a 6CG7 + 300b anything but "bland" and Ali's 845 at Owston sounded very good as well with Nicks OB speakers.

The output transformers i use are 6.8K and are of unknown origin (came from the Emporium at a good price)

ed · Post by ed » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:17 pm

Hi Ali

I think(imo obviously) you may be reading too much into this precision thing here. There are a whole stack of variables at play here...

From experience I can tell you that different OPTs behave wildly differently with the esl3s, even with a similar spec. Driven by WAD 6550 doesnt sound anything like my current kt88, in fact I'll go as far as to say the 6550 was pants. When Colin Topps got a similar setup I believe his findings were different again.

I did some clio tests on the first import but I can't lay my hands on the results at the mo, I was just reminded that it was over 5 years ago now, but I will carry on looking.

I can't do a definitive impedence check on the current esl3s because the step-up transformers have changed and the figures wouldn't be relevant to you.

My advice, fwiw, would be to borrow the OPTs and if you like them, then thats the way to go.....its so very difficult to predict from spec, or at least it has been when I've tried it.

Ed

Paul Barker · Post by **Paul Barker** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:40 pm

Agree with Ed

impedance match within 50% and 150% of perceived wisdom ideals almost indistinguishable. Sonic character of good valve not easily supressed.

Ok I'll back down from bland a peg to uninteresting. If you really push me I'll give you polite.

If you want me to show emotions ask about the western electric oxide coated 211. Can i help it if the 845 is no where near the proper 211?

The only thing which would stop me always giving you these comparrisons would be forme toforget them. i have forgoten plenty but not that yet though one day I will honestly be abletosay I don't remember.

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:53 pm

Ok thanks chaps,I guess I'll just go for 8 ohm secondary then.

Post by **Nick** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:12 pm

Remember lads, we don't all have to agree, if Paul feels 845's are not the ideal valve, thats good, but Phil, it hasn't altered how your amp sounds at all. It sounds the same today as it did yesterday. trust your own ears, if you like the amp thats good too.

Paul was just voiceing his view (as he hopefully will keep doing until he forgets them), but lets not respond to those views in the way we have all seen on other forums in the past, we don't need to form a consensus. Last thing we need is another attempt at the creation of a group mind.

pre65 · Post by **pre65** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:49 pm

Agreed !! I suppose it depends on how you implement each valve !!

When i tried driving the 845 power stage with the ECL82 Doddington amp it did seem to have lost a bit of it's sparkle,which returned when the 300b was re introduced.

And also,300b and 845 are being fed with a basic DC heater supply which i'm told could rob some life from the music.

Trouble i have is that the 845/300b combo is just so big,and in real terms i get almost as much enjoyment from the 832A and ECL82 with the VoFos .

If i did not have the KLS3,which really shine with 845,then there would really be no need for anything other than 832A & ECL82.

I'm looking forward to hearing DTB's new baby speakers on Thursday so that might bring about some difficult decisions re transmitter valves ,950v HT (which still scares me) and KLS3.

andrew Ivimey · Post by **andrew Ivimey** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:50 pm

erm, I wonder what actual impedance/inductance and perceived quality Ali's output transformers are at the moment. My feeling about Chinese transformers is that they aren't very good.

I am always willing to find otherwise, though.

Ali Tait · Post by **Ali Tait** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:22 pm

Probably true in general Andrew,but Liang wind their own in-house so I guess they may be a cut above the norm.Going on the weight alone,they haven't skimped on the iron.Saying that,I think some good replacements wouldn't go amiss.The Electraprints look good considering the price,especially for silver secondaries,but a shot in the dark for me as I've never heard any.They seem to get favourable comments though from what I've read on the web.

al newall · Post by **al newall** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:54 am

[/quote] but lets not respond to those views in the way we have all seen on other forums in the past, we don't need to form a consensus.

You mean, we can all think freely and have opinions without being shot down and ridiculed.

That's revolutionary.
So long as the government doesn't step in.

audio-talk

Output Trannies

#1 Output Trannies

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

#9

#10

#11

#12

#13

#14

#15