Another speaker thread

[Ali Tait]

So many variables here. How good is the Behringer DSP compared to say MiniDSP or MiniDSP HD? How good are the Behringer amps compared to say various eBay class D "cheapies"? How important are the Daytons in the overall mix? No easy way of knowing.

Which is I guess why I'm thinking I probably just need to buy some and have a play.

Well that’s the thing here- how good does it need to be when you’re only going up to 2-300hz or so?

[Nick]

Well, to be devils advocate, Why do we need something to go up to 200Hz? Answer is we can hear it, as we can hear it I guess the sound matters.

And while the DSP may filter the incoming signal to less that 200Hz, its not going to affect any distortion generated in the output stage and drive units with its harmonics at 400, 600, 800Hz.

Thats not to say that the amp in question may not be just fine, LF is probably the best thing to do in class D anyway.

[Ali Tait]

Well, yes, but how high fidelity does the amp and the DSP need to be at there frequencies?

We mostly seem to be happy enough with vinyl’s mono bass.

[Nick]

We mostly seem to be happy enough with vinyl’s mono bass.

(says the man with a reel to reel).

But yes. I have no information to go on, it may be that those drive units with those amps produce considerably less distortion than a more normal drive unit, or a amp with output transformers. Just saying that there are reasons why it may matter even if the DSP limits the range.

[IslandPink]

We mostly seem to be happy enough with vinyl’s mono bass.

I assumed bass was mono anyway below 70Hz because of the wavelengths ?

[Ali Tait]

We mostly seem to be happy enough with vinyl’s mono bass.

(says the man with a reel to reel).

But yes. I have no information to go on, it may be that those drive units with those amps produce considerably less distortion than a more normal drive unit, or a amp with output transformers. Just saying that there are reasons why it may matter even if the DSP limits the range.

Me either tbh. I guess it could be tried both ways. I remember the Owston where a speaker was tried with crossover and DSP. Don’t recall hearing much of a difference.

R to R and vinyl has been in storage for three years, I’ve now moved so when I get time I’ll get it all picked up.

[simon]

How about the UM 15? I guess they’d be a good bit cheaper?

A bit yeah. UM15 €300, UM18 €420 at soundimports.eu.

[steve s]

Vic uses 2 Behringer 6000w amps with built in DSP.

£339 from here for B stock- https://www.whybuynew.co.uk/sound-pa/am ... OcQAvD_BwE

I've heard those, they will certainly add to the mix, positively in a nightclub, less so if you want to hear what's in the music
But as far as bass goes they go some way to providing what I'd call impressive bass...

The point here is that they are only used up to about 200hz. How hi-fi do they need to be?

Sorry to disagree Ali, but the sub 200 hz is very important, as or more important than the rest in my experence, theres a lot of thickening up of the bass with many amplifiers and loudspeakers for that matter.

[vinylnvalves]

I agree about sub 200 Hz... SET amps with there rising impedance give bass bloom

[Ali Tait]

I've heard those, they will certainly add to the mix, positively in a nightclub, less so if you want to hear what's in the music
But as far as bass goes they go some way to providing what I'd call impressive bass...

The point here is that they are only used up to about 200hz. How hi-fi do they need to be?

Sorry to disagree Ali, but the sub 200 hz is very important, as or more important than the rest in my experence, theres a lot of thickening up of the bass with many amplifiers and loudspeakers for that matter.

No need to be sorry, it’s all good discussion. Don’t disagree on it’s importance, just my thoughts were that things like soundstaging and imaging etc are not really a factor at these frequencies, or at least much less of one.

[steve s]

I agree about sub 200 Hz... SET amps with there rising impedance give bass bloom

That very much depends on the drivers steve

[steve s]

No need to be sorry, it’s all good discussion. Don’t disagree on it’s importance, just my thoughts were that things like soundstaging and imaging etc are not really a factor at these frequencies, or at least much less of one.

That's a fair point Ali, but there can be alot of detail down there that's rather easy to spoil.

[vinylnvalves]

I have found this evening sitting down listening, instead of tweaking. Yesterday I made a minor correction to the HF, time aligning the crossovers at 6000Hz better, it has had a positive impact on my existing bass arrangement it seems tighter and deeper. Not understanding the physics behind the improvement I am hearing.

[Nick]

just my thoughts were that things like soundstaging and imaging etc are not really a factor at these frequencies, or at least much less of one.

Probably not, but tone and harmonic accuracy (phase) certainly are IMHO. That was one of the biggest things I found I liked when I first started using OB's

[simon]

Interesting discussion chaps.

I was looking at the Dayton UM15 on the Parts-express website earlier and noticed they sell a sealed sub of 3 cubic feet volume which they reckon is Qtc 0.707 and F3 35Hz.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-au ... l--295-514

https://www.parts-express.com/denovo-au ... --300-7082

This struck me as a rather small box (88L) so I tried modelling it and got a result over twice the volume. Are they being economical with the truth or is there something clever going on?