Fane 15" full range speaker

Dedicated to those large boxes at one end of the room
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#46 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Cressy Snr »

Scottmoose wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 4:51 pm TBH Steve, I can't think of anything that is controversial about what you're doing. It / they are 'just' classical large sealed boxes with large wideband drivers. Quite popular in the US during the late 1950 - early '60s. A bit like these (OK, yours aren't quite so large, but they're still large sealed boxes).
All I'm doing is reviving an old idea from decades ago (note, it's not the AR acoustic suspension principle but the older infinite baffle method) I've always got my nose in speaker books from the 50s and 60s and it's always interesting to look at what the old hi-fi pioneers got up to and when you activate something from those days, in the present and such great portrayals of musical events come out, you do begin to wonder.
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Sun May 13, 2018 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#47 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Cressy Snr »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 5:01 pm
Cressy Snr wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 4:38 pm My speaker projects don't half seem to cause controversy. I often wonder why that is?
I seem to be the only person that gets this kind of attention.
Doesn't bother bother me anymore, so don't stop, because it makes entertaining reading, but it would be interesting for me, to know what it actually is about what I put, that causes it. :)
I don't do it on purpose...honest.
Its not you, if that nonsense had been on another thread I would have commented as well. It is like a red flag to a bull.

AND note Steve has taken it further than the early speakers, made it more simple, no wadding or internal case dampening, just solid ply and a brace. the corner cabs will be even better, more stable and stiffer. If I was to interfere or do it myself I would add a different second 15 inch or 12 inch driver, doped - so just for bass, as near to the bottom of the cab as poss a la Allison. But what the hell it will be great as it is.

AND being corner mount it will naturally be semi omni.
I had pondered a big bass driver to help out the bottom end, but in the end decided it would have been far too much for my small room, or the neighbours to handle :lol:
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#48 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Ray P »

Cressy Snr wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 4:38 pm My speaker projects don't half seem to cause controversy. I often wonder why that is?
I seem to be the only person that gets this kind of attention.
Doesn't bother bother me anymore, so don't stop, because it makes entertaining reading, but it would be interesting for me, to know what it actually is about what I put, that causes it. :)
I don't do it on purpose...honest.
Steve, your adventures are great to observe and long may you continue to do your own thing. I'm disappointed that I won't get to hear them if I manage to roll up the M5/M1 to Owston but I understand your rationale to just go along and treat it as a social event. Carry on enjoying yourself and making me smile in the process.

I don't believe that it's you getting the 'special' attention, nor do I believe that your projects cause any controversy in themselves, nor what you put in the discussions. I just think your threads are used as a convenient vehicle for some unnecessary needling.
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
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#49 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by simon »

I really enjoy your threads Steve; Lord Reith would approve ;-)
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#50 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by chris661 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 3:52 pm
chris661 wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 3:14 pm Gents, this thread is in peril of being derailed, as too many have before it. You've had spats before, and neither of you will say anything new that might change the views of the other.
The "ignore" function works very well on this forum, and I'd recommend its use.

I'm hoping to go and have a listen to the Fane 12"s some time soon - turns out Steve's not far from me.
I might take some measurement gear round, or maybe some live multi-track recordings to play with. I do find you get a very good feel for a system if you try to mix on it. If you can hear the difference of some compressor settings on Rack Tom 2 while the whole mix is playing, you've got a system that really gets down into the details - a Very Good Thing.

Chris
What makes you think adding that stuff in the signal path will make things better in music or understanding. The only thing likely is you will drive the NVA circuit unstable, this is not nor has it ever been a pro amp, it is a music amp it gets out the way of the music and you want to shove a load of nonsense up it.
Richard,

You know not of what you speak, so allow me to educate you on this one.

The mixing desk I use has the option to record all the microphone inputs seperately, direct to a hard-drive. You can then play all those inputs back and route them through internal EQs, compressors, gates, FX, etc, as if the band was playing live in front of you and you're at the controls.
This isn't putting rubbish in the signal path, this is what actual recording studios actually do before putting the finished article on to a CD/LP/internet.

In fact, it's more benign. I've read about the top studio engineers who will run a finished mix through three stages of compression in order to achieve the desired "loudness". It's de-facto standard to include a compressor in the lead vocal signal chain before it even meets a recording medium!

When playing with multi-tracks, you get to choose which studio tricks get applied and how it's mastered, and it's about as close to real live music as you'll ever get at home.

Chris
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#51 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Sorry I cannot agree, having found active crossovers that fry my amps because they were unstable, and other signal processors doing the same thing I baulk at anything but the final recorded music going into my amps. AND yes a lot of this stuff has been used to create that music but the instability and phase problems they create in voltage leading or lagging current does not get duplicated on the final recording. It is the process of using it that creates it at the time.

There is pro gear and there is domestic, there is crossover and some domestic gear is bullet proof where as the pro gear has to be. I am deliberately KISS and not bullet proof OR unconditionally stable, way more so than most people so keep that stuff away from an NVA amp, if you don't and it fries then you will be responsible - you have been warned.
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#52 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by chris661 »

No problem, I'll be taking an amplifier to Steve's. Probably something large and solid-state. Hope the mains supply is up to it... :D

Looking forward to hearing these!

Chris
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#53 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Cressy Snr »

RIGHT!
Not long to Owston so the intention is to knock up some cabinets for the 15" Fane full rangers I bought a few weeks ago.
After the visit to Steve's and the two little events at my place, involving the "12s" I am now confident about my sealed box designs for these drivers. I knew these boxes would work as I'd been there before during the mid to late '70s, and so it has proved 40 years on. Physics hasn't changed over the intervening period.

A bit of rethinking the dimensions for the 15 inch cabs has resulted in a pair of 138L cabinets for the "15s"
These are the maximum size of cabinet that both I and the missus are prepared to tolerate in our front room. Needless to say the bass alignment resulting from the cab size decision is designed for next-to-wall placement. A a pair of these bloody things out in the room would be more than enough grounds for divorce :lol:

So,
Enclosure size on the external dimensions, with a "golden ratio" is:
H - 34in
W - 21in
D - 13in

This results in an F3 of 55Hz, Fb of 74Hz and a Q of 1.1, which can be brought down slightly by the usual internal wall lagging. Importantly though, the wall placement will lift the low end as it does with the 12s.

We actually observed this wall boost phenomenon in action, with the "12s" at Steve's yesterday. They did need to be six inches out into the room at Steve's due to the proximity of his baffles, creating a pseudo corner placement if the cabs were right back up to the wall. It was easy to dial in the right bass peformance with a bit if shuffling of the cabs forward.

I will probably end up departing a little from the golden ratio for purely practical purposes and reduce the depth to 12in and increase the height to compensate. The reason for this is that it is a damn' sight cheaper for 12in wide veneer than 24in and with a slight departure from the golden ratio, the material costs for finishing the cabs if I decide they are keepers is then that much less.
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#54 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by pre65 »

Is it still the plan to have a pair ready for Owston ?
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#55 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Cressy Snr »

If I have the time to do them. Can't promise anything yet. I've been given a few other jobs to do, but the 12s will be going.
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#56 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by steve s »

Cressy Snr wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:05 pm If I have the time to do them. Can't promise anything yet. I've been given a few other jobs to do, but the 12s will be going.
It would be great to hear the 15's Steve. like the 12's I'm sure they will be another winner...

Hopefully without stirring Richard up again... I wonder if Richard realises that Scott was with us all day on Friday and Scott's technical coments on this thread where on the back of, and an extension to the good day spent listening and talking about the 12's and proposed 15's
I would like to add that those of us who know Scott, hold him in very high regard, having seen and heard the results of his designs.
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#57 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Nick »

Enclosure size on the external dimensions, with a "golden ratio" is:
What the benefit of using that ratio? I noticed you did it before.
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#58 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Cressy Snr »

Nick wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:30 pm
Enclosure size on the external dimensions, with a "golden ratio" is:
What the benefit of using that ratio? I noticed you did it before.
The "Golden Ratio" refers to the ideal ratio for height, width, and depth of a speaker cab, to reduce internal standing waves.

The ratio is 0.6 :1.0 : 1.6

It's all to do with sound wavelengths in relation to the lengths of the internal walls of a speaker cabinet. The message is supposed to be that if you have a speaker cabinet that follows the 'Golden Ratio', internal standing waves will be greatly reduced.

I must say that (hi-fi alert!) colouration is pretty low on the 12 inch Fane cabinets; very low and a lot less than I expected.
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#59 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Cressy Snr »

steve s wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:13 pm
Cressy Snr wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:05 pm If I have the time to do them. Can't promise anything yet. I've been given a few other jobs to do, but the 12s will be going.
It would be great to hear the 15's Steve. like the 12's I'm sure they will be another winner...
Aye, If I don't get the 15's done in time, we can always have a meet in the Autumn with the 15's; maybe with Ed's 12's if he gets them built.

Good tech conversation with Scott last Friday too.
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#60 Re: Fane 15" full range speaker

Post by Ant »

Stop watching reruns of house and doctors and all that shite that mi mam watches in an afternoon and build them then!
Just come and get the straight edge and the circular saw, it'll take half the time to cut the panels for em!
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