A Question of Right and Wrong.

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Cressy Snr
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#1 A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by Cressy Snr »

pre65 wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:38 pm
There is no right or wrong in speakers.
Oh I'm afraid there is.
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andrew Ivimey
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#2 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by andrew Ivimey »

But the grey area is enormous in between!
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
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#3 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by pre65 »

andrew Ivimey wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:31 pm But the grey area is enormous in between!
Indeed. :)

What I was attempting to convey is that if person A thinks a speaker is good, but person B thinks it's crap who is right, or is there a right or wrong.

Richards example of Linn Kans and LS3/5a might be a good example ?

I've not heard either, so can't comment personally.
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Cressy Snr
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#4 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by Cressy Snr »

pre65 wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:37 pm
andrew Ivimey wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:31 pm But the grey area is enormous in between!
Indeed. :)

What I was attempting to convey is that if person A thinks a speaker is good, but person B thinks it's crap who is right.
Neither of them are right. The speaker is crap for the simple reason that the sound it makes produces polarised opinions in the listeners. A speaker that plays music is easily recognised. That hypothetical speaker is not playing music, hence the widely differing opinions about how it sounds.
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#5 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

They are the same speaker but one doesn't have Moose daftness.

A question of fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a company with a BBC LS3/5a licence called Chartwell. They went bust, leaving their cabinet maker high high and dry with a large inventory of cabinets. I well known industry wide boy called Ivor offered peanuts (cash) and bought them. Overnight as he already had the Kef drivers he needed as used in the Isobarik and a bit of the crossover from it the Kan was thrown together.

I ask the question which one plays music even in a crap hi-fi way and which one plays hi-fi in a crap music way.

My point is there is some RIGHT in anything that plays music, something that KILLS the music with daft crossovers can NEVER play music and has to be wrong.

Filters kill music because they destroy the phase relationship between different parts of the audio spectrum which destroys the timing of the instrument = TUNE, and make the player not seem to be *IN TUNE* musically with the rest of the band i.e. they don't seem to play together. The music becomes dull as it loses its emotional content etc etc. FFS you can't get more basic.
Last edited by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#6 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

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I would argue that if one speaker plays music in a crap hi-fi way, it's wrong and if the other plays hi-fi in a crap music way, then it's wrong too.
Neither speaker is satisfactory. The Kan will drive you up the wall, the LS3/5a will bore you to death. I would want neither of the bloody things.
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#7 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

But one plays music (even if badly) the other doesn't.
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#8 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

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Cressy Snr wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:22 pm I would argue that if one speaker plays music in a crap hi-fi way, it's wrong and if the other plays hi-fi in a crap music way, then it's wrong too.
Neither speaker is satisfactory. The Kan will drive you up the wall, the LS3/5a will bore you to death. I would want neither of the bloody things.
But Steve, you have the choice to decide what YOU like, as do we all. :)
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#9 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

If you don't like music I ask what the feck do you think you are doing in this hobby, and leave you all to think about that until maybe a few light bulbs go off.

A bloody Roberts Radio play better music than a LS3/5a - think about that.
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#10 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by Cressy Snr »

I heard a pair of Kans back in the day at a local Linn dealer. They were not my cup of tea at all, way too forward in that red braces in yer face 80s style. Should have set the alarm bells ringing, yet I still ended up imprisoned in that flat earth nonsense, just with different speakers.
A couple of weeks ago we bought a retro DAB radio, disguised as a classic curvy Bush radio from the early 60s with the large circular clear plastic tuning dial. It sounds like music, in a crap hi-fi way, but it is not in your face about doing it like the Kan and numerous other "boogie and listen to the tune" speakers
It is difficult to scale that sound up to hi-fi standards and keep the musicality, you either end up with a three humps response, exciting but ultimately fatiguing speaker or something that makes you lose the will to live.
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#11 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by Cressy Snr »

pre65 wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:28 pm
Cressy Snr wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:22 pm I would argue that if one speaker plays music in a crap hi-fi way, it's wrong and if the other plays hi-fi in a crap music way, then it's wrong too.
Neither speaker is satisfactory. The Kan will drive you up the wall, the LS3/5a will bore you to death. I would want neither of the bloody things.
But Steve, you have the choice to decide what YOU like, as do we all. :)
Phil,
What you like and what you don't like is irrelevant. A speaker either plays music or it doesn't. Personal preferences don't come into it. Quality is not what YOU like, Quality is Quality, it exists independently of what your personal preferences are. Anyone can recognise it when they meet it.
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#12 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by andrew Ivimey »

But the grey area in between is enormous.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
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#13 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by Cressy Snr »

andrew Ivimey wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:41 pm But the grey area in between is enormous.
Yes Mr I

Grey areas are very useful illusions. They are handy for hiding all sorts of deception and skullduggery within their ill-defined forms.
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#14 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by Nick »

I used to have a pair of Kan's, they were wrong in all sorts of ways, but they could do things I have not heard since. In particular they could make All Along The Watchtower the most exciting thing in the world. Anything that can do that, must be right in at least one basic way.
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#15 Re: A Question of Right and Wrong.

Post by pre65 »

Cressy Snr wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:39 pm
Phil,
What you like and what you don't like is irrelevant. A speaker either plays music or it doesn't. Personal preferences don't come into it. Quality is not what YOU like, Quality is Quality, it exists independently of what your personal preferences are. Anyone can recognise it when they meet it.
Steve, ever since I got into the DIY thing (about 2006) I have been following your progress on DIY matters.

Every thing you build gets better with time, and effort, and then you decide it's not good enough and build something new, and then the process starts again, and again.

So, if your current setup is as good as you can get, how crap was it at the beginning ?

Presumably at each stage you were happy with the results,judging by your posts, so where was "quality" along the line ?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
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