Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

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Cressy Snr
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Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Cressy Snr » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:55 pm

JohnG wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:41 am
Hi Steve
I have heard and have developed a soft spot for these Speakers through my visiting Owston,
I now have memories of them being their two times, and on each visit these speakers transported me to another place.
I know from your posts and pre presentation descriptions you have made slight changes to them each time I have auditioned them.
For the Record, I like them a lot, they transport me into a place of Solace and relaxation.
They are still on my 'must be done' list.
There is a Mr Nixie - STC 11 Amp, that I would very much like to look into, to be used to Direct Drive them,
'No Speaker Cables' is the intention.
The ongoing investigations being undertaken by yourself and the reporting back of the positive findings are always welcome at this end.

Thanks John,
in comparison to the more exotic FR drivers, the Fane 12in tri-cone driver and its 15in big brother are a steal at the price.
As far as I’m concerned they tick all the right boxes:
  • They work really well with sealed box loading
  • Given the above, the cab can be placed against a wall, so that they integrate well into a living room environment
  • They have good HF extension without the need for a tweeter
  • They present a benign load and are a doddle to drive with a low power SE amplifier
Back to the present work with them: the resistive coupling into the bottom chamber is working very nicely and extends the bass response by a fairly good margin. Slowing down air velocity, lowering the Q and all that.

It’s a pity the original Naim SBL (Separate Box Loudspeaker) was so damned ‘loud’ in the presence region or I’d have bought it in a heartbeat just for its deep, boom free bass. I called it the Naim “Sgt Major” speaker at a dealer show once. It didn’t go down well :lol:

The Fanes with the quasi SBL technique don’t go as low as the Naims did, but they play bass tunes just as well and their bass texture is as good, if not better.
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Cressy Snr
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Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Cressy Snr » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:24 pm

I’ve just had another thought,

The old Naim IBL (Integrated Box Loudspeaker) cheapest in the *BL range, was more like my Fanes, as it too, had an acoustic resistor setup, inside the cabinet rather than as part of an entrance to a separate cab, which required a gasket between the two and a frame to hold the lot rigid in order to prevent air leaks.

I knew somebody had put an acoustic resistor inside a speaker cab before. Roy George.
Acoustic resistances are an interesting addition to the sealed box designer’s toolkit.
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ed
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Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by ed » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:41 pm

you triggered a memory here...I had to go and get Olson off the shelf....
he has a few things to say about silk which has a history in early telephones and microphones....
I think I may be speaking out of turn...I'm going to have a further read and try and fathom inertance, which it seems is relevant.
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Greg
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Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Greg » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:50 pm

Is it not similar to Aperiodic loading where in small boxes there is a resistive vent to atmosphere and in large boxes into a second chamber below a brace? Still used, I believe by Dynaudio and Scan-Speak who still sell vents for DIYers. Also used by Peter Comeau in his WD25A and 25T speakers.

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Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by chris661 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:39 pm

Just trying to wrap my head around it.

If you took a pair of cabinets, put a driver in one and a tube between the two, and then shoved a load of polyfill into the tube and empty cabinets, I can see the following occurring:

- At mid-high frequencies, the driver will only see the cabinet, with a black hole of absorption where the tube is.
- At low frequencies, the tube and second cabinet will appear as a large cabinet

It's worth noting that the frequencies described above are relative to the acoustic size of the cabinet, not necessarily our hearing range.

- At some mid-low frequency, I think the spring-mass system of the loaded sealed box could be annulled by correctly sizing the port. ie, if you do it right you'll get a flat impedance in the LF range. You'd have to line up the port with the sealed Fc of the upper cabinet. Probably. It's a little fuzzy to me.

So, (potential) flat LF impedance, and increased efficiency (via the larger cabinet) at very low frequencies, in something that looks like a stand. Neat.

FWIW I just built some slim floorstanders and filled them with polyfill. YMMV.

Chris

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Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Scottmoose » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:50 pm

Depends on the variation in question. The Dynaco A35 is probably the most well-known example of this load; other variations like the WD25T have used smaller driver chambers with the object of allowing a greater range of fine tuning over the overall system Q. Theoretically it may provide slightly superior driver loading to a regular sealed box as the full box volume & internal resistive-vent are only acoustically transparent at lower frequencies. Different ways & means of implementing of course. YMMV as always.
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Cressy Snr
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Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Cressy Snr » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:40 pm

5 days in with the damped arrangement with twin chambers and acoustic resistance ‘doorway’ between the two and, I think it is a success. I reckon the arrangement is a great help with a big single-driver full range system such as the Fane 12 and 15in, tri-cone units. Here’s why:

I haven’t measured anything, so need to do that to be sure, but the acoustic resistance setup to my ears, acts to shelve the frequency response of the speaker system, up from the lower mids downwards, so that the top to bottom tonal balance becomes more skewed towards flat, once the aid from the next-to-wall wall low bass reinforcement is added into the equation.

This characteristic of the acoustic resistance is incredibly useful with a big full range unit, and it, in conjunction with off-axis listening, ie both cabinets firing straight down the room, effectively neutralises the frequency response without it leading to scooped-out mids.

The end result for the Fane driver in this cabinet, is a flatter in-room response; so much so that it has been possible to remove the behind-the-grille, eye diffuser I put in a few months ago to shelve down the top end. The treble end of the FR is in better balance with the bass, with the acoustic resistance in use, so that shelving the top down is no longer needed.

For a single driver system, this is a very good result.
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