audio-talk

Nick you must have realised it was going to raise a lot of eyebrows at that price.

Yep, of course, but without getting close to marketing spiel, it was and just about is the best I can think of making. I am happy to compare it against any equivalent both commercial and DIY. But TBH, I don’t like to bring it bake off's as generally its a loose loose situation. Either the setup is broken so nothing can sound good, several of the folk listening have axes to grind so will always post what they want on the net, or even if it does sound better than everything else, the difference in price will be used to produce a "but does it sound twice as good?" whatever that means.

So like "War Games", the only way to win is not to play. But I would be happy to do any comparison given less combative circumstances. I am proud of that phono, there is 15 years of my life in it. Its not something where what it does is immediately obvious (well it is, but only part of it), but when you listen to it for a week you will feel a bit better about the price.

The price was also viewed against the number of > £15k turntables that are out there now, its in that context it should be regarded, not against a modified Richer Sounds stage.

shane wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:34 pm To those who have heard Nicks phono stage, I would ask what they thought of it.

See page 1. As additional info the front-end is so quiet that you can run a Denon 103R direct into it without step-ups. This gets you around all the trade-off problems between SUTs and head-amps.

Yep Ali, that was precisely what i was trying to get across too, that there is a million and one behind the scenes costs that go into any product to get to the final retail price. That the price takes this into account and isnt some number plucked out of the ether.
Richard (and me to an extent) have an advantage in this area as we sell direct so a load of overheads that nick and mfa have to take into account aren't relevant to us

Nick - Yes but you have to admit the test house gets you off the hook if you are sued or challenged under the law compared with self certification.

Its a start, but you still have to prove that you have processes in place to ensure that the Nth unit made still conforms in the same way as the ones tested.

IslandPink wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:27 pm

Nick wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:32 pm
I might have told him.

Precisely. Nick and I go back a long way and we correspond almost daily. There's a lot of cost in this and at least one completely original idea in the front-end part of the circuit.

Indeed. Some here may not be aware that the majority of regulars here go back a long way and have known each other personally for many years.

I do however note , that despite my previous comments , Dave will be taking a cut .

Well, if he sold one, but up to this point he hasn't. The only cut Dave has had from this is he got one of his own at a much lower price because he put the money up front to pay for the testing which I then paid him back.

Which creates a bias, and even worse an *in crowd*.

Nick wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:36 pm

I do however note , that despite my previous comments , Dave will be taking a cut .

Well, if he sold one, but up to this point he hasn't. The only cut Dave has had from this is he got one of his own at a much lower price because he put the money up front to pay for the testing which I then paid him back.

And there sits the inditement, MCRU has more slurp rattling around from his rip-offs than the person that deserves to have it. In a nutshell what is wrong with this industry.

The "in crowd" includes virtually everyone here though, so what does it become then?

Nick wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:36 pm

I do however note , that despite my previous comments , Dave will be taking a cut .

Well, if he sold one, but up to this point he hasn't. The only cut Dave has had from this is he got one of his own at a much lower price because he put the money up front to pay for the testing which I then paid him back.

Yes , that is why I said potentially 3 way split .

I must confess , you have done a sterling job in justifying the price , however , if you have put 15 years of your life in to it , I don't expect you will ever recoup those costs . But to some extent it is self fulfilling justification born of your choices not to sell and market . At 10k the numbers you will sell are low , so the price has to be large to recoup those costs , but the reason you will not sell many is because the price is so high.

it does not however make the price a joke and for that I apologise

however should you sell millions then that is a different story

And there sits the inditement, MCRU has more slurp rattling around from his rip-offs than the person that deserves to have it. In a nutshell what is wrong with this industry.

Well, hardly, and I normally use Dave's Phono at shows, so its a very odd definition of slurp. Seems to me very similar to what a crowd sources fund raising process would be. But dont let me push against your beliefs.

if you have put 15 years of your life in to it , I don't expect you will ever recoup those costs

Well, it must be said, the 15 years were not done with a plan of producing the Ref Phono, They were done trying to understand how to make a phono stage. Having got to that point, the Ref Phono was the result. I would have done the work anyway, as I am broken in that way