Help me with my return to the vinyl fold.

Love it or hate it, it just won't stop
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DSJR
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Re: Help me with my return to the vinyl fold.

Post by DSJR » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:37 pm

If the diamond wasn't touched and the cantilever not kinked once straightened, the 440MLb should be ok. The AT 120E and 440 models have an hf peak right where the 97XE dips slightly and I think *some* of what you're hearing is this. The bit of coal that Shure calls a stylus doesn't help much either (there's pics of a V15 IIIHE naked diamond alongside the 97XE to show what I'm talking about).

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/LP4/NewLampsForOld.html

The replacement for the 440 models is the 540, which has shot up in price but offers lower compliance and 2g tracking, which 'should' improve the bass a bit... Subject to confirmation, a 540 stylus should be fine in the 440 body...

Loads on Vinyl Engine regarding SAS styli for some of these cartridges. I think all Shures seem to like a little extra capacitance on the phono input and I think the distant ancestors of the AT did too, but it's a distant memory now and I can't be arsed to trawl through the little 'Choice review books for confirmation tonight... :roll:

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Cressy Snr
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Re: Help me with my return to the vinyl fold.

Post by Cressy Snr » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:01 pm

Nah! Cantilever was kinked on one side, so the tube had collapsed at the kink point. It was straight, but distorted.

Shures and capacitance :roll:
I have read that the M97EX likes a 62K load and an extra 200pF of load capacitance; shades of those little Ortofon "Cap 210" things we used to shove between the pins of our FF15Es and VMS20Es.
Frankly I can't be arsed with such archaic practices anymore.

Caps 210 and T5 transformers. I bet they fetch a pretty penny these days. :lol: :lol:

I reckon the AT150SA before they run out of them would be a good move.

Ant
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Re: Help me with my return to the vinyl fold.

Post by Ant » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:07 pm

i reckon with the shure its the tip mass that is a little too heavy, a different cantilever rather than a different profile might prove worthwhile

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Cressy Snr
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Re: Help me with my return to the vinyl fold.

Post by Cressy Snr » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:44 pm

The postie delivered a new cartridge this morning; a Goldring E3.
At £99 it is obviously a budget MM, but at the moment, it is all I can afford and needs must.

These are made for Goldring, by Audio Technica and use their familiar V magnet system.
It's a real beast of a cartridge, I mean, look at the size of the bloody thing. It looks very retro 50s/60s :)

Image

Tracks like it's on rails at 2g and has a big, dynamic, muscular, beefy sound, with a good, natural, rendition of voices and a large soundstage.
It is lacking in ultimate resolution at ends of record sides due to the limits of its 0.3 x 0.7 elliptical needle, but importantly it absolutely stays in the groove at EOS, which does, for me, provide compensation for the slight lack of sparkle in that area.
It likes higher mass arms, so the rider weight was put back on the Mayware, which copes with it, without a glitch.

A very good cartridge for the money.

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DSJR
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Re: Help me with my return to the vinyl fold.

Post by DSJR » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:02 pm

I've been waiting for someone to try one (I can't justify yet another £100 cartridge here and have an AT120E already which is now a 530 at £180 but with 2g tracking instead of 1.4g). The Shure 97XE is about the only other competitor now as the Grado's, Nagaoka's and once price-similar AT's have rocketed in price. Glad you like it and I can think of many a vintage Dual 10** series which will love it :D Goldring themselves were out of stock for a while (you can get it straight from them I gather and they'll obviously make more if you do)...

It seems the E3 is based on an AT body, but the styli claim to be individually 'extra' hand tuned and the outer body looks fab. £99 isn't unreasonable if the performance sees off the related AT95EX (red stylus and supposedly slightly better tip). Thanks for mini-review and heads-up. Not sure the E1 will be better than a Rega carbon, but who knows...

I live in a world where beer budget cartridges still cost AT95E money (under £30). I keep forgetting that thirty years has gone by and what was well under £30 (Nagaoka MP11 and so on) is now well over a ton, Goldring 1006 at £59 is now £155 and what was a competitive £80 cartridge a mere ten years ago (DL110, AT120E and a DL103 was hovering around a ton) has now more than doubled :( The AT95E thirty years ago was sold for fifteen to twenty quid (fifteen quid retail and dealer-bought on an 'egg-carton' of a good few at a time) and that hasn't increased overmuch in price, so why the discrepancy with everything else?

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Cressy Snr
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Re: Help me with my return to the vinyl fold.

Post by Cressy Snr » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:25 pm

I reckon the discrepancy with the AT95E is that it is, even after all these years, still a sleeper and nobody cares about it. It is so stupidly cheap it can't possibly be any good etc. It needs to carry on being perceived that way, or the buggers'll hike the price of that too.

The doubling of the AT440 etc prices under the guise of "improving" the range is a case of supply and demand due to the vinyl revival and the manufacturers will charge what they can get away with.
The super high end MC stuff will never be affected by the vinyl revival demand, as those carts are and always will be, the preserve of the discerning few.

A bit more cartridge porn:
Image
Handsome beastie isn't it. :wink:

I think Goldring have a winner with the E3. It walks all over the Shure M97xE in terms of top end resolution and tracking performance. Not up with the AT440mlb at the very top end or for speed and edge definition, in the high treble, as the stylus profile is not line contact, but it's better than said AT in terms of solidity, architecture, pace, dynamics, musicality, bass drive and overall tone.

For me, it has a classic beefy, solid vinyl sound, but with none of the fizz fuzz, and EOS problems I detested about virtually every reasonably priced MM I heard up to hearing the AT440mlb and this one.

Because of the fantastic tracking, at EOS it goes mellow and liquid rather than fizzy and harsh, which for me makes it a no brainer. If you are in the market for a budget MM to either use as a daily driver or as a stopgap whilst your expensive MC is at Dom's for a re-tip, I don't think you would find much better at the price.

In my view, Goldring ought to consider doing a mono version to cash in on the retro looks. High mass arm, Beatles Mono Box Set and the looks and sound of this thing would be something to behold.

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Cressy Snr
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Yes Flat Earth Vinyl Really Was That Bad!

Post by Cressy Snr » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:07 pm

I found a Traxdata CDR (for consumer) recording of a set of Atlantic Soul, Chess, Stax and Rock'n roll tracks I made in 1997 on a Traxdata CD recorder.
The tracks were a mixture of stuff taken from CDs and vinyl records. Sources at that time were an ARCAM Delta 170.3 transport/Black Box 5 For digital and a Linn Sondek LP12-Valhalla/Akito mk1/ K18 II for analogue. This CDR is what I am listening to right now on my current system and it is proving to be a fascinating time capsule, giving a spookily evocative demonstration of the kind of sound I was getting twenty years ago.

The tracks recorded off the ARCAM Delta are sounding mighty good, rich, musical and dynamic. It gets interesting when tracks recorded from the vinyl source come up. They are all, without exception, bright, fatiguing and harsh. Every track is covered with a steely sheen that is cringe making on dynamic peaks. The top end is capable of loosening fillings, it is so nasty. But it boogies like buggery and the feet cannot keep still.

If all you want is to dance, then the LP12 combo from 1997 has everything you could possibly want, a total slam dunk. If you want to actually enjoy your music however, it becomes unlistenable after 10 minutes. In fact I have just given up on "Love is Like an Itching in My Heart" by the Supremes recorded off the Linn and my ears are ringing. PRaT in spades, but painful to listen to. Diana Ross' voice was threatening to strip the wallpaper from the chimney breast and the vibes, topping the rhythm section, had me ducking for cover.

I can't believe how awful it was and that combo cost me around £700 in 1997 money. To think of that bloody thing playing through the Pretek/Powertek and Linn Index II setup I had gives me the willies. What I went through with that epitome of the Flat Earth sound doesn't bear thinking about.

What an absolute disaster for sound quality and ultimately the British hi-fi industry that 15 years of flat earth domination was, and what a sucker I was to fall for it.

I'll have to bring that CDR to a meeting so you can all experience the flat earth at its worst. At least it'll serve as a warning never to go there again.:lol:

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