Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Anything to do with the things that make the music we listen to.
User avatar
The Stratmangler
Needs to get out more
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:50 pm
Location: Rossendale, Lancashire

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by The Stratmangler » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:25 pm

andrew Ivimey wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:11 pm
It seems to me that we could make too much about where a thumb goes. If it suits great, if it gets in the way then cut it off.

Quite where the digits of my left hand go, as I murder The Wind Cries Mary on a Strat, a tango on acoustic or simple doodling bluesywoos on a classical guitar my thumb finds a use and I require it go where I wish. If it won't go there we learn to accommodate our failings until, after thought and practise, a tuneful and painless compromise is reached. I could hardly start by saying there is one place and only one place my thumb must go. That way lies madness.
I couldn't put it any better.
Too much bandwidth is being used discussing where one's thumb should or shouldn't be used. Just get on with whatever works best for the individual.
Chris :happy3:

User avatar
ed
retired
Posts: 3515
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:01 pm
Location: yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by ed » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:10 pm

I've read and re-read this thread and one point I can't find, which I think is relevant to whether the book should be banned, is:

Bert Weedon, Dan Morgan and all the other pioneers of guitar tutors for beginners, were aiming at beginners. Tempting would be players into the water in an easy, enjoyable way. Not trying to frighten them off with awkward moves, deep theory and hard learning.

I can only imagine that the OP was being controvertial in suggesting that beginners start where seasoned vets are illustrating their craft.
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be

User avatar
The Stratmangler
Needs to get out more
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:50 pm
Location: Rossendale, Lancashire

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by The Stratmangler » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:04 pm

OP says it kept his playing in the doldrums for 40 years.
I would have thought that in 40 years of practise they'd have learned a few tricks and cheats along the way, and that the book is nothing but a guide, not a rule book.
Chris :happy3:

Professor Loungebar
User
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by Professor Loungebar » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:33 pm

Thanks to Andrew, ed and Stratmangler for your replies. First, my original post was indeed intended to be controversial or, to put it another way, to start off a discussion. Having read many of the posts on this forum, I had assumed there was a certain degree of light heartedness tolerated. Sorry if I got this wrong.

Next, about beginners. Yes, all the books seem to teach the same classical technique. However, my guess is that all these old blues players learnt from an older family member rather from a book, and that the techniques they learned were passed from generation to generation starting from the turn of the last century when ragtime picking evolved in an attempt by players such as Blind Blake to reproduce on the guitar what Scott Joplin etc were doing on piano. This style requires notes to be fretted on the low E, A and sometimes D strings by the thumb, playing the LH piano or bass part, thereby freeing up one or more fingers to play the melody on the top strings. The style/technique then evolved into what is commonly termed Travis picking, after Merle Travis. As this is a pretty complex style, it was probably drastically simplified for rural blues styles, but the thumb stayed on top of the neck. Just my theory, I wasn't around then, but I did try to play a Gibson from around 1910 once, and the neck had such a pronounced V-shape that it was impossible to play using classical LH thumb position.

Professor Loungebar
User
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by Professor Loungebar » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:54 pm

Ralph Denyer's The Guitar Handbook, although teaching the same classical technique as all the rest, does make a brief mention of thumb over technique in his section on full barre chords:

"Alternative Fingering. Many modern guitarists use their thumb to fret the 6th string and play just a two-string barre on the top strings with their 1st finger. The thumb moves from its standard position in the middle of the back of the neck and is hooked over the top of the fingerboard. This allows the bass note to be damped or altered as well."

What applies to the 6th string can also be applied to the 5th and in certain circumstances the 4th as well. There are occasions where this technique doesn't work so well - high up on the neck for example, and certain chords which depending on the size of one's hands, are very awkward or impossible to play other than using classical technique.

User avatar
andrew Ivimey
No idea why I do this anymore
Posts: 6564
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
Location: Bedford

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by andrew Ivimey » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:04 pm

Yeah but no but....who cares? We do what we do. Your postings are hardly a bunch of Larrfs and as for such a stupid name - what really is point?
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.

User avatar
andrew Ivimey
No idea why I do this anymore
Posts: 6564
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
Location: Bedford

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by andrew Ivimey » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:04 pm

On second thoughts I was being rhetorical. I don't need to know.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.

Professor Loungebar
User
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by Professor Loungebar » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:53 pm

Funnily enough, this post was a direct response to Mr Ivimey's post of Wed Feb 22 2017 where he complained of being in the doldrums and looking for direction and his mention of "Burt" Weedon on Fri Mar 31 2017. It's quite likely though that he gets more "larffs" from buying and talking about gear and gadgets than actually making music. However, should he ever decide otherwise, he could always try joining a band. Even at the ripe old age of 64, it's never too late. For example, there was a reggae/ska band from Wiltshire called Urban Lions with a blonde female percussionist called Karen Woodhead who must be about 60 years old.

User avatar
andrew Ivimey
No idea why I do this anymore
Posts: 6564
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
Location: Bedford

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by andrew Ivimey » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:43 pm

Now you are playing games.... dear readers I used to know Karen Woodhead very well and still have a cassette tape of her band, also a tape of my little nephew's rock against racism gig in South London and I'm very sad to say only one very bad recording of a gig I played at Goldsmiths' college in 1975. Since then I have played in quite a few bands...

I've just finished transferring hours and hours of the musical rubbish I've written since 1973 from DAT to WAV and am just getting my courage and strength up to commit my latest guitar based music to hard drive. All part of the process. Now given all that, Professor whoeveryouare you talking about Goldsmiths' and then Karen Woodhead... The coincidence is too great dontcher think!
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.

User avatar
andrew Ivimey
No idea why I do this anymore
Posts: 6564
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
Location: Bedford

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by andrew Ivimey » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:36 pm

Is anybody out there. ... reading this thread ??? I don't mind being stalked in this gentle sort of way - may get heated I suppose but... I haven't seen Karen for around thirty years. In those days it was Dub Warriors and there is much from history now that I respect and laugh about around Karen - why is blond hair significant !? - your problem oh profo loungelizard. Goldsmiths'throws up many wonderful memories and Karen does too,indirectly,so many thanks for that. Could you I wonder connect Israel,Australia and Toronto to the links given so far? Now that would be impressive and a little spooky!
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.

User avatar
andrew Ivimey
No idea why I do this anymore
Posts: 6564
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
Location: Bedford

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by andrew Ivimey » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:38 pm

Oh and by the way... But Weedon hmm mmmmmmmmm yeah all right. Bollocks even if you are a beginner who doesn't know what to do with a thumb.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.

User avatar
Nick
Site Admin
Posts: 11138
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:20 am
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Bert Weedon's Play In A Day

Post by Nick » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:57 pm

Having read many of the posts on this forum, I had assumed there was a certain degree of light heartedness tolerated. Sorry if I got this wrong.
Just to cover this. yes, lots of light heartedness tolerated, however if you read the forum as you say, you will also see that we have been suffering under an onslaught of dim witted folk joining under odd names with the intent of just causing unpleasantness. from your early posts, it was not clear if you are one of the good ones, or just a troublemaker.
Resistance isn't futile it's V / I.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest